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#800107 - 03/23/04 01:02 AM Re: Has your K-6 grade kid had cootie shots yet?  
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Dwain Lee Offline
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Or irrelevant irreverencies.

Piano & Music Accessories
#800108 - 03/23/04 01:03 AM Re: Has your K-6 grade kid had cootie shots yet?  
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And just as irrelevant, this post, just so I can claim post #300 in the thread.

Doh! It's #301!

#800109 - 03/23/04 01:15 AM Re: Has your K-6 grade kid had cootie shots yet?  
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Larry Offline
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Yeah, Larry, now that Elena mentions it, what was really betgween you and the female (I think) below?

What's between us? As much real estate as is geographically possible, I hope.......


Life isn't measured by the breaths you take. Life is measured by the things that left you breathless
#800110 - 03/23/04 01:37 AM Re: Has your K-6 grade kid had cootie shots yet?  
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She just needs the bolts on her neck (possibly obscured by hair) for the jumper cables. If she walks up to you and says she needs a jump run like heck.


Better to light one small candle than to curse the %&#$@#! darkness. :t:
#800111 - 03/23/04 02:10 AM Re: Has your K-6 grade kid had cootie shots yet?  
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[Linked Image]


"If we lose freedom here, there's no place to escape to."
MSU - the university of Michigan!
Wheels
#800112 - 03/23/04 02:27 AM Re: Has your K-6 grade kid had cootie shots yet?  
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Larry Offline
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Jbryan wrote:

Looks like Frankenstein in drag.

I don't appreciate you talking about my cousin that way, I'll have you know. She's a unisexual, and you're supposed to be tolerant of that. Keep that up, and you're gonna rile up Momma.....

[Linked Image]


Life isn't measured by the breaths you take. Life is measured by the things that left you breathless
#800113 - 03/23/04 02:34 AM Re: Has your K-6 grade kid had cootie shots yet?  
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Little Justin Parks gives his opinion on Cootie Shots tolerance training....

[Linked Image]

Little Justin's instructor:
[Linked Image]


Don't worry Buddy - you misunderstood..... some people still want you......
[Linked Image]


Life isn't measured by the breaths you take. Life is measured by the things that left you breathless
#800114 - 03/23/04 02:53 AM Re: Has your K-6 grade kid had cootie shots yet?  
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It does appear that Justin could beat his instructor's @ss.


"If we lose freedom here, there's no place to escape to."
MSU - the university of Michigan!
Wheels
#800115 - 03/23/04 03:36 AM Re: Has your K-6 grade kid had cootie shots yet?  
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David Burton Offline
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I stayed away from this thread and just watched it grow, didnít even read it until tonight. And only got to top third of page 5 before I had to stop. Itís now 2 freaking thirty in the morning! So Iíll post this and see what happens, if anything.

My first thought was how on earth did Larry find out about Bernardís birds? Maybe someone spoke of this in another thread I donít know. At least we now know that Jim Bryan also talks to birds. For the record I talk to my cats and believe me they understand what Iím saying, most of the time.

It seems among human beings, and I think it starts rather early too, among children who some have suggested may be tolerant but may not be as tolerant as civilized educated adults with more knowledge of the world and its many facets, there is a sort of mind game thatís played out. It takes the form of bullying by those who can, until theyíre prevented in some way. Those who get bullied are terrified but there is also something symbiotic going on. They like it too. Itís thrilling to be scared and bullied.

Wilhelm Reich called one side sadism the other masochism as two poles of mutual attraction in his theory of character formation. It is seemingly of almost primal origin. Strip away all the education and refinement and underneath you will uncover one or the other of these two basic types. Unless of course you can get one or the other to move out of these poles into a more advanced character type. There are even theories that trace these poles to brain formation, linking them with the so called primitive brain below the cerebrum.

Of course Reich knew that sexuality was also a primal drive and fought a heroic fight to uncover a way out of the morass of sadomasochistic relationships between people to weld the sexual drive with higher compassion. If he could have found a way out he was certain heíd be on the way to developing a newer better happier human being.

Was this social engineering? It didnít have the chance to be. Reich was chased from country to country until they got him on charges of defrauding the public and threw him in jail where he died, a broken man, a failure.

Reich was one of my late wifeís heroes.

Whether we recognize it or not we have witnessed on this thread a kind of play here between the weak and the strong. The strong always like to toy with the weak, thatís part of the sadistic urge. ďoh come on I was only playing,Ē while deriving immense pleasure from seeing the weak squirm. (This was eerily and dramatically brought out in The Passion by the way) Meanwhile the weak wants something from the strong; to be accepted, loved, protected.

And sometimes there is another reaction; the weak wants eventually to overpower the strong and make him feel real pain and agony. This too is all too human.

I was born an albino with limited vision. The school playgrounds occasionally were heck for me. But then I somehow learned to defuse situations by standing up to bullies, by taking the superior role, with quite a crisp hard edge, by occasionally grabbing one of them and showing them my own strength. By the time I was an adolescent I was through with physical reactions. I used the power of my voice and my mind and none bothered me again. I wasnít a social outcast. I was just apart. People left me alone which was usually fine with me. Those who wanted to know me got to know me.

I can understand something of what a homosexual must feel even though Iíll never be one of them. But to suggest that some of them never try to recruit is not true. I know from personal experience. I also know that just as it is a mistake to say that all straight people are alike, so it is with homosexuals. I have seen all kinds from very tough street smart punks to the most urbane cultured gentlemen. Cross dressers? Iíve heard tales of them in both San Francisco and New York but Iíve never seen one. Nevertheless, look or do anything thatís the slightest bit different and youíre going to be noticed and not always in a positive way.

Usually there are natural societies that form and levels of common sharing that emerge, particularly in typical suburban American high schools with the various cliques devoted to this or that fad.

Obviously there usually arenít enough homosexuals to form a clique so they probably feel much as I did, separated, left out, alone.

OK, letís admit that this is a problem. Are the social engineering methods employed by plays like ďCootie ShotsĒ going to do the trick? No theyíre not, in fact theyíll backfire as all social engineering does because none of it takes into consideration the basic fabric of human nature particularly the natural relationship between the strong and the weak.

Some people by this time have already begun yawning and saying, ďGod, what is Burton rambling on about this time?Ē Iím not as gifted a writer asÖ

Quote
Originally posted by apple:
Children are only young for a short while
They should be taught to be tolerant
They should be taught we are equal

They shouldn't be taught at too young an age
some of the things that burden adults
that they will experience all too soon.
I know, itís hard when you have so much to say and canít get it into thirty five words. But itís leading up to thisÖ

Quote
Originally posted by Ariel:
Pedophilia is predatory and abnormal whichever sexual orientation it is emanating from. To associate homosexuality with pedophilia is dangerous, inaccurate and unfair. Would we be right in concluding that we should blame all heterosexual males for pedophilia aimed at underage females? That's the commonest kind of pedophilia. Sickness is sickness. Child molesting is child molesting. Fair is fair.
Many thanks Ariel !

Most would never believe me if I told them that there is real organized pedophilia out there operating in high places among people youíd never suspect of it who DO have an agenda and have had it since at least the end of the World War II. It started in Amsterdam, still the kiddy porn capital of the world. They decided that if they could gain public acceptance of homosexuality including same sex marriage and child rearing, then they could force their agenda on the rest of society; open target on children anywhere and everywhere. The political end of the homosexual community is being duped into thinking theyíll gain social acceptance, whereas they are in truth being used by far more deviant people who have no great need of or concern for them accept to further their own nefarious agenda. Yes my friends, the insidious weak vs. the strong again in its darkest form.

ďone obstinately and blindly devoted to his own church, party, belief, or opinion.Ē By this definition many of us are bigots. If all the world is somehow bigoted the word ceases to carry much meaning.

We all need to get so beyond this to figure out who has driven these policies, WHO IS BEHIND IT, and unmask them and stop it. Do it before there is a real civil war, and donít think it canít happen.

Anyway, think about what Iím saying. Do I need to make it plain? Parents should go find out who is responsible for sponsoring this play and stuff like it, find the real people behind it, then watch them like hawks!

No, pedophilia, I prefer calling it pederasty or child molesting, is not homosexuality and Iím not sure theyíre related. And they do NOT share the same profile. A pederast is a predator who masks himself or herself as a normal socially integrated person who just happens to like employment near lots of children; schools, churches, pageants, playgrounds, amusement parks, etc.

Quote
Originally posted by CrashTest:
Its funny how parents talk about their kids like they are property! Well, maybe they are, as our society functions in a way that makes it seem so.
Seem so? It is so in law and fact. Iíve done my research into family law coast to coast covering over 50 child abuse cases and believe you me, underneath most real sexual child abuse is the pederast parent or guardian who gets the courts to accept THEIR CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTÖ. Donít get me started. Hand me a handgun mister!

Pederasts are on the bottom of my list as far as human depravity goes. The lowest rung of heck would not be bad enough for them. Every person they touch is scarred for life. Many never recover. These are the ďsick bastardsĒ not people like Bernard.

Iíve told you guys to go easy on him and I mean it! LOL.

You see my own reactions canít help fit the pattern. Very interesting how the subject turned to guns too. Very. I donít own a gun. Donít care whether others own them or not. Iím not ashamed to admit that though Iím blinder than blind, Iíd certainly like the thrill of shooting a big handgun some day. But thatís off the topic, merely symbolic, shooting off our energies, being manly men, etc.

Iíd really like Bernard to think over his idea that acquainting young children with prejudices against homosexuals is really going to work. (Kenny too.) He thinks it will teach tolerance of diversity. (Kenny thinks it will further his idea of equality) Actually it may backfire. Rvaga knows.

I have a kid, a sixteen year old girl, who Iím sorry to say is very deeply prejudiced against people she knows very little about, and she certainly didnít get it from me. She got it from her friends at school? Or maybe she had it as something innate. Her mother would be shocked. I hope she grows out of it. Nobody likes to think the unthinkable but if we grant as Bernard does that being truly homosexual is innate, Iím afraid weíre going to have to accept the possibility that certain other prejudices and predispositions are just as innate.

Political libs have trouble with this. It rankles their notions about equality. Well for the thousandth time I shout EQUALITY DOES NOT EXIST AND NEVER HAS AND NEVER WILL. THE WORLD IS UNFAIR, GET USED TO IT.
I certainly had to learn to accept it.

Iíll never be a Tom K or a Larry much as I might like to. On the other hand neither will ever be able to be me.

This was a real gem of a post:

Quote
Originally posted by Ariel:
I have concerns about how children are introduced to sex-role identification. Kids are conservative. Life introduces them to enough surprises, and they're expected to swallow them. You never heard the one about the kid who is told "the facts" when he asks where his baby sister came from? He laughs hysterically, then working down finally to hiccups and wiping his eyes, says, "OK, OK [snort] Now tell me the TRUTH!"*
You think storks are less plausible? Then you DON'T remember being a kid!

Things have to be kept basic before exceptions are introduced. This is a totally different subject from that of their own innate sexual preferences. And is also from different from intolerance and ridicule.

Before early puberty, kids as a rule (unless they've been abused) are pre-sexual, just as they're pre-orgasmic (except in a psychodynamic sense).

Seems to be more the sticks and and snails and puppy dog tails aspect of sex-role sterotyping.

I'd like to see that loosened up a good bit (and it's VERY different from culture to culture - just pick up some old Malinowski or Margaret Mead, flawed as their methodology was). Especially when it comes to educating about opportunity and human potential - like until recently, girls were told to think of nursing school only if they were keen on medicine.

But in early childhood - as in up to Junior High -I think things should be kept as simple as possible. Yes, kids CAN get confused. Life's confusing enough. Why not keep the boy babies dressed in blue and the girl babies in pink? Gay teachers are fine with me - as long as they're good teachers. But no, save the drag queens for later: in the classroom, on TV and in Disney World. And the whole issue of cross dressing (and walking dead dogs, for that matter too - as gryphon pointed out). And this is not a pro-stereotyping recommendation; it's a recommendation that kids not be exposed to variations on sexuality which I think are NOT the product of individual idiosyncrasy, but of social pathology. The pathology being a society which is contemptuous of and shame-inducing about difference - and not just sexual ones. That means it's pretty much impossible to see what "normal homosexuality" (think about it!) might look like. But it doesn't look like Rupaul. And to present that variation as a healthy option at an early age isn't doing ANYBODY any good, not gays or hets. (Equally important - it doesn't look like nine-year old female tartlets either!) I think gender-identity confusion is a real risk and has nothing to do with sexual preference. And I've been there in spades as a single mother of sons, believe you me.
Thank-you Ariel.

#800116 - 03/23/04 08:20 AM Re: Has your K-6 grade kid had cootie shots yet?  
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Larry,

Who unwrapped your "mummy". Please, tell them to wrap her back up!


Better to light one small candle than to curse the %&#$@#! darkness. :t:
#800117 - 03/23/04 10:00 AM Re: Has your K-6 grade kid had cootie shots yet?  
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David Burton - I'm grateful for the time you share with us....you are very interesting.


accompanist/organist.. a non-MTNA teacher to a few

love and peace, √ēun (apple in Estonian)
#800118 - 03/23/04 10:15 AM Re: Has your K-6 grade kid had cootie shots yet?  
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Interesting post Dave. I read the whole thing and now I think I'm going blind wink But if you're ever down here in NC, I'll take you out shooting. You'll get bored of it "right quick" because it's just miserably LOUD. I do own firearms, but until they make them quieter, I can't say I'll enjoy shooting them much. Why I own them we can discuss elsewhere, but offer stands.

On topic, I can't fault taking a conservative approach to educating children about sexuality. As long as you do educate them. But by conservative, I mean be conservative in exposing them to anything judgemental or unclear. Much of what we've heard these skits depict is fairly tame and risk free. It may not be mainstream normal, but it is presented in a simple way with little judgement. Once Kings start issuing proclamations that this is now legal and acceptable, or when "Queens" have people beheaded, you've crossed a line. For people who feel strongly about these issues, NOT crossing that line is hard.

The cross-dressing, possibly homosexual boy in the skit of most contention doesn't meet my criteria for childrens education. You want to show a boy who likes to dress up like a girl and feels bad that he gets teased about it. Fine. Leave out references to "Queens" and beheadings, and that's fine. Maybe I'm wrong that being a "Queen" implies homosexuality, and maybe a little kid might not even notice it, but hey, I'm a physician and even I'm confused by that skit.

Like Ariel, I would follow the KISS principle. Keep it Simple, Stupid. And not because kids are stupid, obviously, but because child under the age of 10 will have a hard time differentiating between sexual attraction and friendship. And between play and gender identity. Confusing them with too much information, especially when the information is presented in a way even we adults find ambiguous and judgemental, seems like a bad idea. ie, not low risk.

Still, I don't agree that this method, call it artsy exposure, will backfire. It will only backfire if too much is made of it and children are pressured to "accept" that these skits depict normallacy (is that a word?). If the kids say, in post skit discussions, "that's weird", or "that's not normal", and are told "that's an interesting opinion", or "a lot of people agree with you, but some people actually do think it's normal", fine. The skits will probably do some good because the kids will have something to think about and discuss with their parents. If they are told by the teachers/educators that "it IS normal", or that they are being intolerant, then the risk of this backfiring and bothering parents becomes much greater.

Touchy subject, and tough to approach it safely.

Todd


M&H AA (2006)
#800119 - 03/23/04 11:54 AM Re: Has your K-6 grade kid had cootie shots yet?  
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Larry Offline
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Quote
Originally posted by JBryan:
Larry,

Who unwrapped your "mummy". Please, tell them to wrap her back up!
Wait a minute..... got to get my webcam turned on for this one.....
.
.
.
.
.
There.....now....
.
You got somethin' against my Momma?.......
[Linked Image]


Life isn't measured by the breaths you take. Life is measured by the things that left you breathless
#800120 - 03/23/04 12:15 PM Re: Has your K-6 grade kid had cootie shots yet?  
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Quote
Originally posted by gryphon:
Quote
Originally posted by Improviso:
[b] If a liberal had to take their own medicine
Ha! You aren't fooling me, not one little bit. Your pronoun doesn't agree with its antecedent subject, a sure sign you are either a liberal PC weenie or a female who's afraid of hurting another's feelings. In either case, this staunch right-wing machismo persona is just a front.

Have I got it right? laugh [/b]
Nope. Missed the target by a country mile. Take another "whack" at it.

#800121 - 03/23/04 12:24 PM Re: Has your K-6 grade kid had cootie shots yet?  
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Quote
Originally posted by Tom-*K:
Quote
Posted by kathy with a k: [b]CHORTLE CHORTLE - as in the Marquis de Sade!
Ouch! You know me too well, my beauty. wink [/b]
Tom,

That would be a great (and so true) tag line for you.

"Either kill me or take me as I am, because I'll be damned if I ever change..."

#800122 - 03/23/04 12:46 PM Re: Has your K-6 grade kid had cootie shots yet?  
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JBryan Offline
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Quote
Originally posted by Larry:
Wait a minute..... got to get my webcam turned on for this one.....
.
.
.
.
.
There.....now....
.
You got somethin' against my Momma?.......
[Linked Image]
No but I'll bet when you were born the doc slapped her instead.


Better to light one small candle than to curse the %&#$@#! darkness. :t:
#800123 - 03/23/04 01:10 PM Re: Has your K-6 grade kid had cootie shots yet?  
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Larry Offline
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Deep in Cherokee Country
When I was born, they arrested my Momma for peddling crack........

laugh


Actually, I was one of twins. My Daddy looked at us both and said "Momma, we've got to drown that ugly one........"

..... and that's how I learned to swim........

laugh


Life isn't measured by the breaths you take. Life is measured by the things that left you breathless
#800124 - 03/23/04 04:34 PM Re: Has your K-6 grade kid had cootie shots yet?  
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David Burton's post?

Simply outstanding. David has a gift for seeing the bigger picture.


www.coffee-room.com

Over 1.3M (and counting) posts where pianists discuss everything. And nothing.
#800125 - 03/23/04 04:35 PM Re: Has your K-6 grade kid had cootie shots yet?  
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And for writing the biggest posts! eek

#800126 - 03/23/04 04:43 PM Re: Has your K-6 grade kid had cootie shots yet?  
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Quote
Originally posted by Improviso:
Quote
Originally posted by Tom-*K:
[b]
Quote
Posted by kathy with a k: [b]CHORTLE CHORTLE - as in the Marquis de Sade!
Ouch! You know me too well, my beauty. wink [/b]
Tom,

That would be a great (and so true) tag line for you.

"Either kill me or take me as I am, because I'll be damned if I ever change..." [/b]
Ahh dear friend, thank you for your wise suggestion: but it was penned to kathy with a k, and the one who is the sun and to whom I am but a pale waxing moon would scorn the idea.

Women! Damn them and their feelings to heck!

But what can be done my friend, they hold the key to our hearts, do they not!?!

Some day, you and I, my philosophical compatriot, shall raise a tankard or two of ale together and find a few wenches to break our hearts!

#800127 - 03/23/04 05:07 PM Re: Has your K-6 grade kid had cootie shots yet?  
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Quote
Originally posted by Tom-*K:
But what can be done my friend, they hold the key to our hearts, do they not!?!

So true. We're like putty in their hands. It's a good thing we are so "trainable" or I think they would take us out back and shoot us.

#800128 - 03/23/04 05:30 PM Re: Has your K-6 grade kid had cootie shots yet?  
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Quote
Originally posted by Improviso:
Quote
Originally posted by Tom-*K:
[b] But what can be done my friend, they hold the key to our hearts, do they not!?!

So true. We're like putty in their hands. It's a good thing we are so "trainable" or I think they would take us out back and shoot us. [/b]
Don't tempt us. wink

#800129 - 03/23/04 05:44 PM Re: Has your K-6 grade kid had cootie shots yet?  
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Kansas
you guys need jobs


accompanist/organist.. a non-MTNA teacher to a few

love and peace, √ēun (apple in Estonian)
#800130 - 03/23/04 05:52 PM Re: Has your K-6 grade kid had cootie shots yet?  
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I've got one and can't seem to get it done. [Linked Image]

#800131 - 03/23/04 05:55 PM Re: Has your K-6 grade kid had cootie shots yet?  
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Quote
Originally posted by apple:
you guys need jobs
apple!!! You lusty wench, you are fair maiden that has won this swashbucklers heart, be mine tonight, my lovely. I shall wisper such sweet nothings into you ear that your breasts will grow a size larger!

#800132 - 03/23/04 06:18 PM Re: Has your K-6 grade kid had cootie shots yet?  
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 9,798
JBryan Offline
9000 Post Club Member
JBryan  Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 9,798
Oklahoma City
Quote
Originally posted by apple:
you guys need jobs
Boss is coming:

[Linked Image]

Get back to work!


Better to light one small candle than to curse the %&#$@#! darkness. :t:
#800133 - 03/23/04 06:34 PM Re: Has your K-6 grade kid had cootie shots yet?  
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 3,378
bcarey Offline
3000 Post Club Member
bcarey  Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 3,378
North Carolina
Quote
Originally posted by Tom-*K:
Quote
Originally posted by apple:
[b] you guys need jobs
apple!!! You lusty wench, you are fair maiden that has won this swashbucklers heart, be mine tonight, my lovely. I shall wisper such sweet nothings into you ear that your breasts will grow a size larger! [/b]
Apple,

Take him out back and shoot him! wink

#800134 - 03/23/04 06:37 PM Re: Has your K-6 grade kid had cootie shots yet?  
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 3,378
bcarey Offline
3000 Post Club Member
bcarey  Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 3,378
North Carolina
Quote
Originally posted by JBryan:
Quote
Originally posted by apple:
[b] you guys need jobs
Boss is coming:

[Linked Image]

Get back to work! [/b]
Trying to change the constitution, JBryan?

#800135 - 03/23/04 06:39 PM Re: Has your K-6 grade kid had cootie shots yet?  
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 5,934
Tom--K Offline
5000 Post Club Member
Tom--K  Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 5,934
frown

#800136 - 03/23/04 06:40 PM Re: Has your K-6 grade kid had cootie shots yet?  
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 6,971
kathyk Offline
6000 Post Club Member
kathyk  Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 6,971
Maine
Hasta la Vista, Babies!

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