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Red ink is MEAN #775732 04/06/05 08:52 AM
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AaronSF Offline OP
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Wouldn't want teacher's red ink hurting Johnny's feelings! This is unbelievable to me...

http://www.cnn.com/2005/EDUCATION/04/04/no.more.red.ap/index.html

Comments? I'm especially interested in what parents with school-aged children have to say about this.


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Re: Red ink is MEAN #775733 04/06/05 09:01 AM
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jon-nyc Offline
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Interesting.... I'm not surprised though.

I worked in Trumbull CT for over a year (commuting from Manhattan).

We used to refer to it as "Ice Station Zebra"


If you don't talk to your children about equal temperment, who will?
Re: Red ink is MEAN #775734 04/06/05 09:05 AM
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kenny Offline
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How absurd.
This reminds me of a comic I clipped and stuck on my wall:

It was in the Sunday L.A. Times 3-27-05.
The comic is “Mallard Fillmore” by Bruce Tinsley.
Picture 6 panels in which an adult male is speaking to us.
Here's the text:

1. I have a lot of trouble keeping a job . . .I can’t add, spell or speak very well.

2. And I have issues with pressure, criticism, and hard work . . . My schools didn’t believe in that stuff!

3. They thought those things might hurt our self-esteem.

4. I was part of the generation that got awards for showing up . . . for walking . . . for eating lunch.

5. So, last time I got fired, I went back and talked to my old high school principal. Now I feel better.

6. (He’s smiling and holding an award) She gave me this really cool “Getting-fired Award,” and told me I was special!

Re: Red ink is MEAN #775735 04/06/05 09:13 AM
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AaronSF Offline OP
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laugh laugh laugh


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Re: Red ink is MEAN #775736 04/06/05 09:21 AM
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Nina Offline
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People can be complete idiots.

Re: Red ink is MEAN #775737 04/06/05 09:23 AM
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kenny Offline
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I am a partial idiot.

Re: Red ink is MEAN #775738 04/06/05 09:31 AM
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justme Offline
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My kids are older (the youngest being a senior in high school) but this kind of stuff has always bothered me. I remember when the boys were little they would come home with all kinds of spelling mistakes and grammatical errors on their papers. I'd get to the teachers remarks which would say "Great Job!" "Wonderful story!" "Keep up the good work!"

This, of course, frustrated me and when I confronted the teachers they would say they were trying to build the kids self-esteem and wanted the kids to focus on being expressive and creative. Huh?

One situation I remember very clearly involved the eldest's fifth grade teacher. After years of being allowed to make mistakes she gave him an F because his penmanship was deplorable. She said the content was excellent but she was tired of trying to decipher his handwriting. (apparently he didn't close his k's and they looked like h's) So, I go to her and ask what can we do to help bring his grade up and correct his penmanship. She said not to worry. We should allow him do the work on a computer or a typewriter and that she was willing to change the grade to an A. Well me being me had a problem with that. I said this was unacceptable and that I wanted my child to learn how to write proper penmanship. Did they have a penmanship book for him to practice his h's and k's. Well they looked high and low, all over the school for a penmanship book and couldn't find one. This was an elementary school for God's sake. Anyhow, they decided to bring in a specialist to watch him as he wrote. So, for a full week this woman came to the school and sat next to him in class watching him write. She couldn't figure out what he was doing wrong. And I watched tax dollars being wasted. Anyhow they finally gave him a little doohickey/thingymajig to put on his pencil.

Anyhow, his self-esteem is great but his penmanship sux. Come to think of it so does his spelling.

Re: Red ink is MEAN #775739 04/06/05 09:56 AM
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kathyk Offline
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What I wonder is how things like this make the national news. I guess it's that Schiavo/Pope vacuum.

Re: Red ink is MEAN #775740 04/06/05 10:15 AM
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markb Offline
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Here's my comment: People are coming up with the most pathetic excuses as to why their little Johnnys aren't doing well in school. If these parents are so disillusioned as to think that red ink is negatively impacting their childrens' learning, it's no wonder that the kids are having academic problems.


markb--The Count of Casio
Re: Red ink is MEAN #775741 04/06/05 10:17 AM
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AaronSF Offline OP
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Quote
Originally posted by kathyk:
What I wonder is how things like this make the national news. I guess it's that Schiavo/Pope vacuum.
CNN got it from AP. I think on any given day there's tons of this "column filler" fodder. It might not show up in the Times, but CNN has unlimited bandwidth and posts all kinds of schlock.

What I found interesting was the complete lack of background for this story. Where was the story editor? I would have said, "Sure, great idea, but put the story into the larger context of the modern parent-teacher relationship and the whole feel-good attitude that has permeated much of elementary education. Is this attitude coming from the parents or the teachers, or both?" I'd ask the writer. "How does it relate to how parents are raising (or not raising) their children? How did we get to a place where parents don't know how to raise their children? Is it because they are never home? Is it because they are too self-involved? Is it because they don't want to do what their parents did -- they think they can do it better without a smack to the behind? Is it because it's so easy to park them in front of the TV and not have to interact with them?"

I'd have lots of questions if I was the story editor! wink


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Re: Red ink is MEAN #775742 04/06/05 10:28 AM
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kenny Offline
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Good points Aaron.

To me the story is deeply ironic.

We live in a crybaby culture.
Why?
Well, here's a good example of why kids are growing up to become crybaby parents.

Re: Red ink is MEAN #775743 04/06/05 10:31 AM
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markjpcs Offline
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The whole idea of preserving self-esteem over lack of accomplishment and the required constructive criticism (i.e. TEACHING!) is so incredibly stupid it makes me sick.

This is where it leads? A color of ink used to correct a paper is somehow controversial?

The 25 year old IDIOT in this story who thinks that he has to correct papers with a purple pen should be brutally re-educated.

Hey! I learned something from yhabpo! whome

Re: Red ink is MEAN #775744 04/06/05 10:39 AM
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Nina Offline
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Quote
Originally posted by kenny:
I am a partial idiot.
Me, too, and I'm running with it! smile thumb

(although I prefer to think of it as "I am only a partial idiot.")

Re: Red ink is MEAN #775745 04/06/05 05:52 PM
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Ben D. Offline
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as posted in this thread before justme pointed out this one:

My mom won't let my dad grade with red anymore.

(He's a college english professor, and when his kids write the word 'you' in their papers he writes NOOOOOO!!!! in big huge letters on the paper, which looks a lot worse in red than it does in purple. Their papers tend to be filled with grammatical errors and typos as well. A comment he wrote a couple of weeks ago: "I don't know who taught you basic grammar, but you need to be very, very angry at that individual..." :p )


now a resident of TNCR - www.coffee-room.com
Re: Red ink is MEAN #775746 04/06/05 06:00 PM
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librarymichael Offline
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I'm a proud user of red ink when I grade my college students' papers. As long as red pens are manufactured, I will use them!

Re: Red ink is MEAN #775747 04/06/05 06:03 PM
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dolmansaxlil Offline
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I don't grade anything in red either. A prof once said she didn't because "it looked like the paper was bleeding". So I use gel pens in a colour relative to the season (orange at Hallowe'en, purple in spring, etc).

As far as the spelling/grammar is concerned - it depends on the assignment. Anything for "publication" such as Writers Workshop stories that they put into a "book" form, type up on the computer - basically anything with a "Good copy" must be edited and error free (age appropriately as far as grammar) before publication. Same goes for essays, etc. Tests, day to day work in subjects other than language aren't marked for grammar or spelling - basically because if you threaten a kid in math with docking marks for spelling something wrong, they don't do as well communicating their ideas because they are afraid to use words they aren't sure of the spelling of. We do teach spelling and grammar, and it does count for marks, but we are careful about where we dock marks because we don't want to mark a kid down in a subject that they clearly understand and know because they are a horrible speller. Obviously their language marks will suffer, though.


On a mission from Glod
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Re: Red ink is MEAN #775748 04/06/05 06:04 PM
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justme Offline
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Quote
Originally posted by librarymichael:
I'm a proud user of red ink when I grade my college students' papers. As long as red pens are manufactured, I will use them!
YEAH!!!

Re: Red ink is MEAN #775749 04/06/05 06:19 PM
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markjpcs Offline
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Quote
Originally posted by librarymichael:
I'm a proud user of red ink when I grade my college students' papers. As long as red pens are manufactured, I will use them!
thumb thumb thumb

Re: Red ink is MEAN #775750 04/06/05 06:22 PM
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AaronSF Offline OP
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Quote
Originally posted by librarymichael:
I'm a proud user of red ink when I grade my college students' papers. As long as red pens are manufactured, I will use them!
thumb thumb thumb (that is, I agree with mark!)


August Förster 215
Re: Red ink is MEAN #775751 04/06/05 06:26 PM
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Tom--K Offline
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Quote
Originally posted by AaronSF:
Quote
Originally posted by librarymichael:
[b] I'm a proud user of red ink when I grade my college students' papers. As long as red pens are manufactured, I will use them!
thumb thumb thumb (that is, I agree with mark!) [/b]
My 11 year old daughter's remark when a teacher started to grade in purple: "That's so gay!" laugh

(We are not a PC family.)

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