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this is absurd

goldberg

can you get seiler, bosenderfer, estonia and steinway wholesle price to me and tell me where to buy. I pay $40,000. for seiler grand, can I get refund.

private message ok.

Hey Goldberg,

What gives man? What about these oil rich tycoons that made tens of Billions in profit last year (2006)? Leave this small industry alone. You are wasting you efforts man. Go after the rich oil companies instead…

Why do you consistently display prices of pianos from Yamaha & Kawai. What about Steinway & Sons, Mason & Hamlin, Bosendorfer, Fazioli, Seiler, Sauter, etc……….

*OLD THREAD ALERT*

Goldberg7 has not been around since last July and I have the feeling he may have been banned based on my memory of just his name.

For all we know he was a sock and thus lives on within us.

Is there a way to know if someone has been banned?

Don't flame the guy for trying to help us with the posted prices. He went through a lot of work to be able to copy and paste the Kawai prices. People come to this forum all the time, and most of the time they do not contribute anything. But when one does try, God help him.

I would like to buy SK-3 and SK-5 at goldbergs price and I'm a shigeru dealer if that tells anyone anything about the prices.

I'm not sure what good is does me the consumer, to post prices from other continents. So what? I should travel to Japan and bring back a piano? I would love to pay $14,500 for a C3, but instead, I'm looking at a GC1. And a CVP-303 for $2500? That wouldn't even get me a 301.

So what's the point?

So how likely is it for us here in the US to get a new SK-5 for around $30,000? I would like to get one tomorrow if I can. Let me know.

Yes, Kawai had been list pricing the SKs as above in the past. But, they withdrawn the prices of the SKs from the web in a few years age and I am wondering whether 1)they are going to change(of course to the higher) the list prices, 2)due to raw material shortage, they are unable to carry the SK business in list-price-bases or 3)they are going to sell SKs only to qualfied customers.
Actually, in four years ago, when I was wondering which SK2 or Boston 178 to choose, the list prices were the same and non-negotiatable on both SKs and Bostons with a Kawai dealership.
The soundboard of SK-series is made of Hokkaido spruce seasoned for five years. Also, SK owners are given a right being serviced by MPA. These two resources, 5-year seasoned Hokkaido spruce and MPA , are limited and Kawai is not able to increase production of SKs only by correcting numbers in production plan.
　When they started the SK project, I guess, Kawai put the very low list prices for SKs in order to win the tough competition with Yam, but eventually they have got the win and they are suffering shortage of SKs. If I were a member of the board of Kawai, I would withdraw the list price from the web in order to avoid orders from overseas, qualify customers(only to end users whose profesions are music-related)and sell at highter prices.
Buying an SK is not only obtaining the SK piano, but also receiving services by MPA. As I know of, number of MPAs in the world is thirty-something. I think you can purchase SK5s direct from Japan(probably by mail order) at around usd30,000/each, but transportation of such precious instruments have to be by air, or by sea in an air-contidioned container and would cost around usd10,000, and you have to yield the services by the MPA.

But, buying Yamaha C-series from Japan direct is another matter. If you really think the C-series pianos have the values of the street prices in US
indeed and you do not mind insufficiently dried wood materials do not matter, buy them(seasoned for Asian countries) direct from Japan.

The "no cooling off" period laws are not specific to pianos. The infact do exist at auto dealerships are are posted in every closing room. The only exceptions to this are when items are being sold in locations that are not bona fide retail locations i.e. college sales, armory sales, trade shows, etc. Real estate is frequently conducted in a person's home and rarely in an office. The distinction is that in a retail environment the customer comes into the dealership. Outside sales frequently find a customer by caviat and with greater pressure/impulse potential.

Japanese instruments in the far east are sold direct from the factory and bear no US distributor mark up. Simple as that.

--So how likely is it for us here in the US to get a new SK-5 for around $30,000? I would like to get one tomorrow if I can. Let me know.--

Not very likely, the pianos are too expensive to carry. Person would make considerably more sticking there money into a low interest cd for 6-12 months.

Investor27,
It is very likely only to possess one. But, please note that SKs you have seen and satisfied with the performances(excluding with the prices) at the dealerships in you country have been preped by MPAs or a very skillful techs after uncrating.
If one of your friends is happen to be a Kawai MPA or a very skillful tech, it is worth considering getting one from Japan direct.

Thank you for your reply, Masaki. It is unlikely that any of us here in the US have a Kawai MPA for a friend. But from the experiences that I have read about people on this forum and others who have had a Kawai MPA over at their homes, and how friendly and professional these MPAs are, we all would love to call one our friend.

I always found prices in Europe, especially German pianos, to be much more consistent.

People are perhaps more familiar with their own products there, products that have been around a very long time.

Don't forget that many dealers go back sometimes also as far as the manufacturers of the pianos they happen to carry themselves....

"Man kennt sich ja" - 'one knows each other', and nobody can get away or would even try gouching there.

Trying to do this, would only amount to extending a huge favour to the well represented competiton anyways.

Often in very same showroom, by the way.....

Norbert

So, can someone tell me a reasonable price I should expect to pay for a RX2 or C2 in the US?

1. I have no idea what Goldberg is referring to about signing come kind of contract.
2. In California the laws regarding Cooling Off Periods are left to outside sales where the seller/dealer is meeting the customer somewhere off premises ie. armory sales etc. When a customer comes into a brick and morter store, picks out an item, pays the money and signs the cash sale invoice, a deal ought to be a deal.
3. Every dealership I have ever been in displayed MSRP pricing. Most have additional "sale pricing." It is common knowledge that street selling prices are 20%-30% off that.
This is no different than any other "big ticket" item i.e. pool tables, jet skis, boats, professional ranges, etc.
How can your showing prices in Japan "help" U.S. buyers? They can't buy these pianos here at your pricing. How are you helping them?

The prices in Japan may give you some clews in guessing factory costs or real values of the pianos.

Chesslover seems to be a troll, nothing more. His ideas need no rebuttal because they are not expressed in logical form. There are plenty of aggressive adjectives and a reasonable amount of mild profanity, but nary a linear stream of argument to be found.

A lower priced piano doesn't equate to a better lifestyle. Low prices (subsidized or otherwise) for flour, milk, bread, sugar, etc. might be helpful to a better minimum lifestyle, but for most people lifestyle means much more than the ability to obtain a rock-bottom price on anything they want.

I have a lot of Japanese visitors, and I visit Japan annually. Life there has never been the same since the bubble burst around 1990. Mega-sized discount department stores (equal in size to US examples) continue to proliferate. 100 Yen stores (equal to US 99 cent stores) are everywhere. Used cars continue to be popular spending alternatives to new. Twenty years ago most Japanese people were uncomfortable when a price seemed low. They had more confidence when the price was higher. No more! People try to cope with the present while worrying about their pensions, their children's future, and their retirement (sound familiar?). Their government flounders while looking for answers. (sound familiar?)

Then they scrape together enough for a family vacation to California and find that the digital keyboards, digital cameras, and game software that were made in their country all cost less in the US, and that US travelers flying the same airline and same round-trip route that they are, but in the opposite order, are paying 30 to 50% less for their tickets. I don't think it will comfort them much if they can get a Kawai on the cheap back home.

It's people like Goldberg that make it difficult for prospective buyers of pianos to find accurate information, and therefore making shopping for a piano difficult and quite frankly, not an enjoyable experience. People that sell pianos are just like you and me, they need to make a living too. I understand we don't want to get ripped off, but if you really like something and want it, then go out and get it. Life is too short to be caught up and constantly playing Monday morning quarterback for months, even years after you bought the piano. When I bought my piano, I know that I could have gotten a better price(according to these forums) yet I didn't want to look like an a$$, and embarass myself and my integrity and name.