Piano World Home Page Forums Restricted and Archives The Coffee Room Au revoir les amis !

This is my last post in the Coffee Room.

These conversations have been very rich and most times very friendly.

What happened lately in the "Blame it on the jews" thread and in the one about political correctness have really been much too serious.

Of course, I cannot explain and only a few of you must have been hurt by what the viciousness of the blows.

Maybe this forum is a game and it is for fun.

But I really put all my heart into it.

Well, I'll put my heart somewhere else.

Farewell to all my dear friends.



PS You can always e-mail me if you want to tell me something nice or hear something nice.

And so....

Those who use personal attacks, who see nothing wrong in denigrating individuals, who state so confidently that opposing views are stupid or ignorant and the people who hold them even worse, have claimed another victim.

They must be proud of themselves. Or maybe they will simply quietly gloat over what they see as a victory.

I am sorry to see you go, Benedict, as I have been sorry to see and hear about others who have left because they simply are unwilling to deal with such viciousness.

Get off of your high horse John Andrew. Nobody did any of these things to Benedict.

Benedict, I hate to see you go. I always enjoy your posts. I hope you will reconsider, but I understand why you feel the way you do. Good Luck

Au revoir benedict, bien que nous n'ayons jamais ete du meme cote des issues, je vous considere un adversaire valable et une bonne personne. Vous etes un homme decent et je vous admire pour lui. Et mon conseil personnel, ne prennent pas des choses tellement serieusement, vous vivra une plus longue vie plus heureuse.

You know, Tom - I half expected that to be full of insults, but it wasn't. It was very nice.

Goodbye, Benedict. I wish you would stay. I know that you feel that you talk until you are blue in the face, and you still cannot make people understand. That is true sometimes. But if you leave, you miss out on the chance that the more you let people get to know you, to read your thoughts, to like you, and to consider you a friend, the more they will be willing to listen to your point of view. And sometimes, you can even change their mind.

Best of luck, I will miss you.

Jodi

Ahh, Benedict, the coffee room is not for sensitive souls, nor left-leaning ones, I'm afraid. But then, what would they do without a few scapegoats!
I'm here for now, until I've been hurled that final insulting blow that catapults me out, once and for all. And, there's John Andrew, who seems to be able to let it all roll off as he keeps returning for more abuse. And the dear Picque and Ariel who so eloquantly express their points of view, but none too often. No, I think what the coffee room is meant to be is a right wing coffee Klatcsh - and it's heading there quickly.

Not if I can help it. This *Savoyard* hasn't even started to scrap.

Rumour has it that after John Paul Jones uttered his famous quote "I have not yet begun to fight", one deckhand remarked to another "There's always someone that doesn't get the word."

Hay kathy,

That's funny, because I'm a sensitive soul and I do just fine here!

And yes, some hearts are broken
And tho' some loose their way
There's also many kind bonds unspoken
Between posters in this little play

We laugh, we fight, we share our lives
We live from day to day
Then move on to places otherwise
When there's nothing left to say.

Benedict, reconsider. The Coffe Room can be boisterous, but only because real life, and the open exchange of ideas is boisterous. I haven't read the "Blame it on the Jews" thread, but I understand that it got ugly. I don't have the time or desire to wade through it, so I don't know what was said.

But...

We all have opinions that we hold passionately. Whether we all agree on those opinions - and obviously couldn't - the passion with which we hold our own opinions is evidence that all of us here are thinking, intelligent people. We are not the apathetic mass. We are not part of the problem. While our differences aren't always pleasant, the reason for the differences is proof that we're all good people worth listening to. And despite the claims of some, the vitriol is not limited to only one side of the political spectrum. Both sides have combatants that can sling mud as well as anyone on the opposing side.

You and I have had a few testy moments in the past ourselves. Yet despite our differences, I never thought ill of you, and I would hope the feeling was mutual.

If you leave, I'll respect your decision. But if you do, the conversations here will have lost a very eloquent participant, always giving food for thought and intelligent point/counterpoint. I hope you stay.

Who was he, some relative of the Pope or ancestor of the Bass player for Led Zeppelin? Dosen't matter anyway as he would have been no match for Nelson, Hood or Collingwood.

Or Russell Crowe.

Or Peter O'Toole

For the record, I have never thought of the coffee room as a haven for the right wingers. I think BOTH sides (and a few up and downs as well) do a pretty darn good job of expressing themselves eloquently, as well as occasionally making complete asses out of themselves. :p

And just because they aren't posting, doesn't mean there aren't a heck of a lot of people out there reading and thinking "Yeah! What s/he said!"

Jodi

Jody, you are exactly right...except it seems that here on this Forum (and in life in general,) Liberals tend to be Drama Queens.

Read benedict's and John Andrew's and Kathy with a K's posts and you can almost imagine the veins bulging in their neck from shrillness as they typed. They are all chewing scenery and playing to the crowds.

Look, benedict has picked up his marbles and has gone away before--and he came back. If he wanted to go he'd just go, but no, he's playing the grand exit. And look at pique. She has sung her death scene from Madam Butterfly twice as far as I remember and keeps coming back to life.

This is just Grand Opera--Liberal Style.

benedict,
i imagine i know how you feel, as i've also taken extended coffee room breaks, and for very similar reasons.

we are idealists. we hope that we can turn hearts with our words, and it is so bitterly disappointing sometimes when we see that there are a lot of hearts in the world that have no intention of turning.

if it were not for you, and ariel, and several others, i probably would not have revealed my ethnic roots. it is still that vulnerable a thing to do. you never know how people will react.

the reactions here, in the coffee room, from some people, have been quite ugly. i don't blame you for walking away from that. when i first sensed this sentiment among a certain segment of the population here, i also walked away. who wants to deal with that? why should we?

i came back to the coffee room because you are here. because of several others who are here, who helped to improve the tenor of this place. if everyone who really cares and puts their hearts into what they write leaves, then this will indeed become a souless place.

i guess that is OK. the people who are still here that i feel safe with i doubt will leave piano world altogether, even if they do leave the coffee room.

i hope when you say you are leaving the coffee room, that means i will still find you in the pianist's corner. i have loved the coversations we have had there.

consider this, benedict: the coffee room reveals to us the other side. in real life we don't surround ourselves so much with others who think so differently than we do. the coffee room is an education in the diversity of world views that are out there. it is an education in tolerance.

i hope you'll be back, because your presence here is a very real blessing.

As for Benedict leaving, that's his choice. He's given just as good as he's got, as they say. I enjoyed him, but if he's leaving because he didn't like the debates that happen here, then *he's* the one with the problem.

As for you, Kathy.... if you'll remember, you came here right out of the gate announcing your intent to kick some conservative butt. What you found was not that conservatives were ganging up on you - what you found out, and maybe it came as a shock to you or something, was that conservatives actually have brains, and can kick butt back.

This forum is a slice or reality, not the sheltered little world you (not aimed at anyone in particular - just a generic "you") comfortably choose to surround yourself in. In your world, you associate with like minded people, so you assume the majority of people think like you do. You come to a place like this, and you find out that not only do a lot of people *not* think like you do, a lot of them are just as smart as you are, and just as able to defend their views as you are. *Now* you have a debate.

You're a lawyer - you should know that debates can get quite heated. I don't think a single person here on *either* side of an issue harbors any ill toward anyone else. I know I don't. I like every single person here. I even like John Andrews..... though I find him to be the most confused person I've ever tried to communicate with. Just because someone defends their position forcefully does not mean they are mean, or a bully. Everyone needs to keep in perspective the fact that we came here to discuss things, to argue our viewpoints, and that no ill will is intended from anyone - don't take things so thin skinned. You're among friends - if they weren't your friend, they wouldn't be here debating you. It's because they enjoy the debate. If you are losing the debate, don't start whining that you're being ganged up on. It's just a debate - none of us are going to change anything. So we should keep a spirit of enjoying ourselves, and remember we are among friends.

Benedict,

Ah, so sad to see you go. But I understand your reasons. "Kindness is my religion"...The Dalai Lama. I've always thought this described you. I hope you will still visit the Pianist's Corner. I will miss your inspirational words.

pdolce

TomK has it right on the money.

Ah yes, that pervasive, ugly, and, to the untrained eye, totally invisible anti-semitism.

It is this type of slander that truly disgusts me.

I suppose I should be considered to be among the (wonder of wonders, very many) hard boiled here. No grand exits, no whining about how mean everyone is to me. Just give and take as it goes. I think some are just unhappy that anyone would dare to disagree with the "received" wisdom. Big news flash. The received wisdom has no clothes.