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#756066 - 12/21/04 09:06 AM Ethical?  
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Jolly Offline
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Is it ethical for members/former members of this site to solicit PW members for a competing Piano Forum site?


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#756067 - 12/21/04 09:15 AM Re: Ethical?  
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mound Offline
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ethical? competing?

I cross reference pianoforum.net on this site all the time.

I didn't know there was any competition involved.. They are all resources, use them as you wish.

-Paul


"You look hopefully for an idea and then you're humble when you find it and you wish your skills were better. To have even a half-baked touch of creativity is an honor."
-- Ernie Stires, composer
#756068 - 12/21/04 09:17 AM Re: Ethical?  
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The 89th Key Offline
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No.


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#756069 - 12/21/04 09:20 AM Re: Ethical?  
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Matt G. Offline
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Yes. Let the free market decide. :p


Sacred cows make the best hamburger. - Clemens
#756070 - 12/21/04 09:24 AM Re: Ethical?  
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a non-issue IMO.

#756071 - 12/21/04 09:31 AM Re: Ethical?  
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Jolly Offline
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Quote
Originally posted by mound:
ethical? competing?

I cross reference pianoforum.net on this site all the time.

I didn't know there was any competition involved.. They are all resources, use them as you wish.

-Paul
I used the word solicit. There is a difference between mentioning a site, and actively soliciting members.

Is it ethical to solicit?


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#756072 - 12/21/04 09:42 AM Re: Ethical?  
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Dan Offline
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Round here, you can get picked up on East Colfax for soliciting ...


As for other sites, mentioning is ok, saying it's a cool site is fine, soliciting members from here is *ALSO* fine provided there is no money involved on either side (i.e. loss of $ here or gain of $ there). Since it's almost impossible to figure out that last bit about money, that makes solicting a gray area IMO.

#756073 - 12/21/04 09:53 AM Re: Ethical?  
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When a forum gets as big as this one, splinter groups will naturally form. I see nothing wrong with someone creating another group and inviting people they think might be interested to join. It doesn't mean people have to choose between one or the other, though they might. Does this group actually exist? Is it seeking to recruit people away from PW, or just recruit people from PW? If it exists, why was it created? What motivated its creation?

There's lots to consider (and much more information needed) before I could decide on the ethicality of it.


Aaron
#756074 - 12/21/04 09:56 AM Re: Ethical?  
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I think the best way to deal with that issue is to abide by the rules Frank has established. I think the applicable rule is this one:

Quote
What Is/Isn't Allowed?
We are a family-oriented web site. Please be careful what you post. Keep it clean, refrain from vulgarity or slander.
The Coffee Room is a little more open than the other forums, but even here please keep in mind young children may access the threads.
For more details about what you should/shouldn't post, please see this...
Be Careful What You Post!
There might also be some prohibition against spamming/selling things (although I couldn't find one), but that's not applicable to the situation you describe, I think.

The only way it wouldn't be OK would be if Frank decided it wasn't. So far, he hasn't so far as I know.

#756075 - 12/21/04 10:12 AM Re: Ethical?  
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I never saw it before. It's hilarious! They are a bunch of people with absolutely nothing to say.

Some old favorites are there. To give you an idea of the tone of the place, check out this post from kathyk:

Okay, I'll start off saying this is not original - I got the idea from another unamed forum...

You gotta love 'um. laugh

#756076 - 12/21/04 10:25 AM Re: Ethical?  
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Is it ethical? Don't know.

Does it matter? No.

It's not like PW is at any risk. laugh

#756077 - 12/21/04 10:27 AM Re: Ethical?  
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apple* Offline
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might thin some of the riffraff.. might be a good thing...


accompanist/organist.. a non-MTNA teacher to a few

love and peace, Õun (apple in Estonian)
#756078 - 12/21/04 10:33 AM Re: Ethical?  
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Quote
Originally posted by NAK:
Is it ethical? Don't know.

Does it matter? No.

It's not like PW is at any risk. laugh
Kind of the Dark Matter Piano World. Everything in black and hard to read. I'm going to join as a sockpuppet, they won't know it's me till it's too late. [Linked Image] HA HA HA!

#756079 - 12/21/04 10:34 AM Re: Ethical?  
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I agree with Matt. It's the internet forum version of a free market. Besides, a little attrition never hurt anybody.


"If we continually try to force a child to do what he is afraid to do, he will become more timid, and will use his brains and energy, not to explore the unknown, but to find ways to avoid the pressures we put on him." (John Holt)

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#756080 - 12/21/04 10:36 AM Re: Ethical?  
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The 89th Key Offline
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Quote
Originally posted by Tom--K:
I never saw it before. It's hilarious! They are a bunch of people with absolutely nothing to say.

Some old favorites are there. To give you an idea of the tone of the place, check out this post from kathyk:

[b]Okay, I'll start off saying this is not original - I got the idea from another unamed forum...


You gotta love 'um. laugh [/b]
mad mad mad mad mad

I just wrote this nice long post, and it was deleted because of an internet error. I HATE THAT!!!! mad

Anyway, I was just making fun of that other website, regarding the issues that they were addressing; ones that we talk about all the time in here, except in here we contribute on a MUCH higher intellectual level. (as compared to what I saw there)

For example they would have stuff like:

"What do you think of this homosexuality topic?"

You might as well have:

"Has anyone heard of this Inter-Net technology?"

"What do you think about this Iraq war?"

or

"Has anyone ever listened to Rachmaninoff 3?"

Haha!


-The 89th Key [Linked Image]

[Linked Image] www.thecollegecritic.com [Linked Image]
--- Integrity | Loyalty | Simplicity ---
#756081 - 12/21/04 10:40 AM Re: Ethical?  
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Quote
Originally posted by Cindysphinx:
I think the best way to deal with... snip... but that's not applicable to the situation you describe, I think.

The only way it wouldn't be OK would be if Frank decided it wasn't. So far, he hasn't so far as I know.
Point taken.

That which is not expressly forbidden is implicitly condoned.

Yet...what if the solicitation was monetarily damaging to Frank?


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#756082 - 12/21/04 10:42 AM Re: Ethical?  
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The 89th Key Offline
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Quote
Originally posted by Tom--K:
Quote
Originally posted by NAK:
[b] Is it ethical? Don't know.

Does it matter? No.

It's not like PW is at any risk. laugh
Kind of the Dark Matter Piano World. Everything in black and hard to read. I'm going to join as a sockpuppet, they won't know it's me till it's too late. [Linked Image] HA HA HA! [/b]
Hmmm, that gives me an idea! We should form a large gang of normal CR members (30 or so) and just go over and terrorize that forum, and run them outta town! This is OUR turf! whome


-The 89th Key [Linked Image]

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--- Integrity | Loyalty | Simplicity ---
#756083 - 12/21/04 10:45 AM Re: Ethical?  
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Phlebas Offline
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Quote
Originally posted by Jolly:
Is it ethical for members/former members of this site to solicit PW members for a competing Piano Forum site?
If you're talking about pianoforum.net, it's not a competing site. This site is geared more towards the technical end, and pianoforum.net is more toward pianists. The members tend to be a lot younger too.

I've been a member of pianoforum.net for almost as long as I've been a member here. I've never solicited any members from one forum to another. I don't think it's wrong to encourage people to post in another related, but not competing, forum.

I've gotten information from the other forum that I would not have gotten here, and the reverse is true.

It's non-issue.

Both Nils at pianoforum.net, and Frank at PianoWorld are busy people, and they don't need trouble made over this.

#756084 - 12/21/04 10:54 AM Re: Ethical?  
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Quote
Originally posted by Tom--K:

... To give you an idea of the tone of the place, check out this post from kathyk:

Okay, I'll start off saying this is not original - I got the idea from another unamed forum...
You stalk her all the way to that other site? You must really miss her, a lot! laugh

#756085 - 12/21/04 10:56 AM Re: Ethical?  
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apple* Offline
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i miss kathy too... such a stubborn woman


accompanist/organist.. a non-MTNA teacher to a few

love and peace, Õun (apple in Estonian)
#756086 - 12/21/04 11:00 AM Re: Ethical?  
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I'm gonna be bluntly frank. The only ones I regret leaving are Benedict, Shantinik and Ariel. The rest of the 'dearly departed' had little or nothing original to say.


"The older the fiddle, the sweeter the music"~ Augustus McCrae
#756087 - 12/21/04 11:07 AM Re: Ethical?  
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"Nils at pianoforum.net"??!!! As in Nils Luerhman?! Gee, why isn't Steve Cohen a charter member over there?!! laugh

#756088 - 12/21/04 11:19 AM Re: Ethical?  
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Jolly Offline
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Nah, different Nils. (And to show you how arcane our comments are, there probably aren't ten folks here who could tell you who Luehrman was... laugh )


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#756089 - 12/21/04 11:36 AM Re: Ethical?  
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Quote
Originally posted by apple*:
i miss kathy too... such a stubborn woman
Not to say anything bad about the dearly departed, but kathyk was crazy. Towards the end there she really was something of a screaming lunatic.

All and all, those guys will be very happy in a moderated forum in the same way the would be very happy in a moderated America. Big Brother watching and lots and lots of rules to follow.

God bless them each and every one. smile

#756090 - 12/21/04 11:39 AM Re: Ethical?  
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Jolly:

Quote
Yet...what if the solicitation was monetarily damaging to Frank?
I don't think that is possible. This site is *free.*

Frank says so.

#756091 - 12/21/04 12:08 PM Re: Ethical?  
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Jolly Offline
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Quote
Originally posted by Cindysphinx:
Jolly:

Quote
Yet...what if the solicitation was monetarily damaging to Frank?
I don't think that is possible. This site is *free.*

Frank says so.
I beg to differ.

This site is free, granted. Yet...when folks drop in on the best piano boards on the net, they hopefully add a bit of commerce to Frank's pockets. Maybe they buy a copy of The Piano Book . I once read that this site sells more of that tome than does Larry Fine's own site.

Or maybe they purchase something from Frank's store, or perhaps they list their piano on the Pianos for Sale section.

But I think the forums are the initial draw.

I've never had a problem with folks mentioning other boards. I used to be on Mr. Land's board quite a bit, as were a couple of others around here. And there are more than a few old rmmp'er roomers here, like Larry, Rich, or Dwain.

However, from a couple of things I've read, there seems to be an active solicitation movement going on, to a competing board.

And yes, I do find that to be a bit beyond the pale, if the modus operandi is the PM function on this board, and the gathering of our publicly displayed email addresses.

Just because something is free, is not an absolution to leave one's ethics at the door.


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#756092 - 12/21/04 12:24 PM Re: Ethical?  
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Quote
Originally posted by Cindysphinx:
Jolly:

Quote
Yet...what if the solicitation was monetarily damaging to Frank?
I don't think that is possible. This site is *free.*

Frank says so.
jeez -

eek


accompanist/organist.. a non-MTNA teacher to a few

love and peace, Õun (apple in Estonian)
#756093 - 12/21/04 12:24 PM Re: Ethical?  
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Quote
Originally posted by apple*:
Quote
Originally posted by Cindysphinx:
[b] Jolly:

Quote
Yet...what if the solicitation was monetarily damaging to Frank?
I don't think that is possible. This site is *free.*

Frank says so.
jeez -

free for those who would take

eek [/b]


accompanist/organist.. a non-MTNA teacher to a few

love and peace, Õun (apple in Estonian)
#756094 - 12/21/04 12:25 PM Re: Ethical?  
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This site is free from the standpoint that you don't have to pay to join and use it. But this site is hardly "free".

Maybe it would help you to gain a clearer understanding of where you are, Cindy. The name of this site is PianoWorld, not Piano Forum. The main purpose of this site is to hopefully make a buck, not provide you and I a playground. Forums exist to drive up the hit count on the site. Obviously, they can serve a purpose which is also beneficial to the overall good of the site, which in the case of the piano forum is to provide a place for people to gain useful information when shopping for a piano, the pianist's corner where people can share information about playing the piano, etc. But those are the carrots - the main function forums serve is to drive up hit count, making the site come up higher up the food chain on a google search, and hopefully go to the areas where things are sold, and money is made.

On the one hand, this is a non issue from the standpoint that no one "owns" a poster, and everyone is free to visit whatever site they wish to visit. They are also free to recommend another site if they choose. I don't see a problem with that at all. To me, it comes down to intent. If someone is actively trying to drive people *away* from a forum to another one, while it may not be "against the law" so to speak, it is a most disgusting and tasteless act, and quite tacky at the very least.


Life isn't measured by the breaths you take. Life is measured by the things that left you breathless
#756095 - 12/21/04 12:46 PM Re: Ethical?  
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NAK Offline
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Quote
Originally posted by apple*:
Quote
Originally posted by apple*:
[b]
Quote
Originally posted by Cindysphinx:
[b] Jolly:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Yet...what if the solicitation was monetarily damaging to Frank?
I don't think that is possible. This site is *free.*

Frank says so.
jeez -

free for those who would take

eek [/b]
[/b]</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Don't you hate it when you try to edit a post but quote it instead?

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