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#737545 - 07/08/02 10:34 PM Re: Someone Has To Save Business
JBryan Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/19/02
Posts: 9798
Loc: Oklahoma City
George, now you seem to be arguing for stiffer enforcement of existing law. You won't get an argument from me on that. I do believe in economic Darwinism in a sense. That is that there are winners and losers and that is the way it is meant to be. It seems that our friends on the left are constantly trying to construct a system in which there are no losers. The only result has always been all losers except for a few in charge. Our system is not always pretty but it is the best one around. Of course, that is not to say that I support fraud and corruption but there happens to be, coincidentally, laws already on the books against that. I would agree that those found guilty of such crimes should be sent to the pokey. And not the kind where the hardest thing each day is working on your handicap. More laws that place government ever more into board rooms regulating how CEOs are selected and such nonsense will not have any effect on that, however. It is just more government takeover of our economy.
Better to light one small candle than to curse the %&#$@#! darkness.

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#737546 - 07/08/02 10:48 PM Re: Someone Has To Save Business

Originally posted by Derick:

I didn't mean to misquote, I only changed the name you call the president. I assume that's what you are referring to and not the fact that I left out some of your post. If so, I'll respect your wishes in the future.

Thank you Derick. I appreciate it.

#737547 - 07/08/02 11:11 PM Re: Someone Has To Save Business
JBryan Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/19/02
Posts: 9798
Loc: Oklahoma City
I wouldn't worry too much about it Derick. Oh, George has a point in that you really should not misquote him but we know who he is talking about and why he refers to these people in the manner that he does. Don't get me wrong. He has every right to refer to them in any manner he chooses. The fact is that he intends to push certain buttons in us by this technique even though I really coudn't care less. However, while I may not be offended by the labels he uses, that is his intent and is rather irritating in that, while he is constantly posturing as the one who is above partisanship or rancor, he does so while perpetually sticking his thumb in our eye. I suppose that is just about all we can ever expect so I will continue to simply ignore it.
Better to light one small candle than to curse the %&#$@#! darkness.

#737548 - 07/08/02 11:46 PM Re: Someone Has To Save Business
Derick Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/03/02
Posts: 3290
Loc: New York
When I do quote George again, I will respect the President as well as George (and his wishes).

Your point, JBryan, about existing laws is valid but why are they not enforced? Why are corporate executives not held to the same standard that would, if we violated them, land you or I in jail in a heartbeat?

Believe it or not, I dislike the idea of more and/or stricter laws. But I don't see how we can expect the system to correct itself.

Today I read an article about one of my favorite companies, IBM. The analyst was saying that the stock is still trading too high at $70/share; last year it was $115. The analyst listed several reasons why he believes it should be trading around $50/share.

One thing that struck me *again* was the fact that IBM used the income from its pension plan as profit. That's perfectly legal. The problem is the pension fund has taken a nosedive with the stock market and IBM doesn't look nearly as healthy as it once did. In fact, it never was healthy. A good portion of their profit arose from smoke and mirrors. Yet the CEO raked in over $1,000,000,000 in his 9 year tenure for his "outstanding performance".

This must stop. Board members from company A scratching the backs of those from company B in turn scratching with company C and back again to company A must stop. Stockholders must DEMAND socially, responsible, performance from company executives.

Socially responsible performance means that corporate executives should be penalized, financially, when they take away from employees to boost the bottom line. Corporate executives should be penalized when they lay off American workers and don't touch European or Asian workers. After all, the American consumer pays for all of this sooner or later.

It still irks me to think that Sir Louis Gerstner, former CEO of IBM (knighted by that idiot Queen Elizabeth), collects a $1,000,000/year pension, $500,000,000 in stock options and full lifetime medical benefits.

The last year I worked for IBM my pension was yanked as were my lifetime medical benefits. My father retired from IBM and my mother is still entitled to collect on his pension and take advantage of his medical plan (he got out before Sir Louis stole from the employees). However, last year, my mother was told she now has to contribute to the health plan. My father's whopping $20,000/year pension does not help much with the $400/month medical insurance bill.

How do we let people get away with this kind of stuff? Sir Louis supposedly goes to church everyday. But I wonder how he sleeps at night.

Don't worry about people stealing your ideas. If your ideas are any good, you'll have to ram them down people's throats.

#737549 - 07/09/02 12:16 AM Re: Someone Has To Save Business
JBryan Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/19/02
Posts: 9798
Loc: Oklahoma City

I agree that the laws we have on the books have not been enforced vigorously enough nor have the penalties handed down been severe enough. I would like to see some of these guys end up with cellmates named Bubba instead of Armand (if you know what I mean). Your point about corporate executives and their "golden handshakes" is also well taken. Believe me, the people screaming the loudest about these abuses are on Wall Street. I would expect to see a drastic shift in expectations from investors and board members.

I really do sympathize with the employees of these companies whose interests and, all too often, their life savings get lost in the tumult. I would really like to see something that could protect them without sticking government behind the wheel of our economy. However, there really is only so much that can be done to protect workers from the vicissitudes of our market based system. Still, I carry no brief for those who place workers pensions and jobs at risk through fraud and deception.
Better to light one small candle than to curse the %&#$@#! darkness.

#737550 - 07/09/02 01:07 AM Re: Someone Has To Save Business
Larry Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/25/01
Posts: 9217
Loc: Deep in Cherokee Country
Originally posted by George061875:

If you are going to quote me, please quote me as I write it. If you do not want to do so, just refer to what I said. If my name is going on a quote in someone's post, please leave the quote as I said it. You are claiming them to be my words, so please use my words even if you don't like them.

Thanks. ;\) [/b]
Yes, Derick. Whatever you do, don't leave out one of George's perjorative names. That's his entire reason for posting. Screw the ideas! Just as long as you get Il Duce in there somewhere, George will be happy.
Life isn't measured by the breaths you take. Life is measured by the things that left you breathless

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