2017 was our 20th year online!

Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 3 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

Shop our online store for music lovers
SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad)
Wessell Nickel & Gross
PianoForAll
(ad)
Best of Piano Buyer
 Best of Piano Buyer
(ad)
Faust Harrison Pianos
Faust Harrison 100+ Steinway pianos
Who's Online Now
51 members (clothearednincompo, Beemer, Beowulf, bobrunyan, Badger1966, Ajax69, 13 invisible), 475 guests, and 440 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 1 of 2 1 2
Climate of Fear
#734778 10/07/04 07:45 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 14,262
Jolly Offline OP
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
OP Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 14,262
If you can't beat 'em at the ballot box...


http://www.nationalreview.com/kurtz/kurtz200410070852.asp


TNCR. Over 20 years. Over 2,000,000 posts. And a new site...

https://nodebb.the-new-coffee-room.club

Where pianists and others talk about everything. And nothing.
Piano & Music Accessories
Re: Climate of Fear
#734779 10/07/04 07:53 AM
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 11,678
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 11,678
Liberals are so tolerant.


"If we lose freedom here, there's no place to escape to."
MSU - the university of Michigan!
Wheels
Re: Climate of Fear
#734780 10/07/04 08:59 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 14,262
Jolly Offline OP
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
OP Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 14,262
The guys don't seem to be biting today, but this is actually something I'm a bit concerned about. These problems, coupled with the coordinated storming of several Bush offices this week, signify an ugly trend.

We know about ugly politics down here. Read some the Huey Long era stuff, and you'll find that competing factions strolled their respective turf, with machine guns.

It took quite a few years, an assasination, and a few death sentences, until things got a bit straightened out.

I would hate to see the country engaged in a like downward spiral. Violence begats violence, until one side triumphs over the other.


TNCR. Over 20 years. Over 2,000,000 posts. And a new site...

https://nodebb.the-new-coffee-room.club

Where pianists and others talk about everything. And nothing.
Re: Climate of Fear
#734781 10/07/04 12:57 PM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 2,138
2000 Post Club Member
Online Content
2000 Post Club Member
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 2,138
Yes Jolly, you are right:

"Violence begats violence, until one side triumphs over the other."

Remind me who sent our boys and girls overseas?

If a hammer is your only tool, everything begins to look like a nail. Is warfare this administration's only tool?

Re: Climate of Fear
#734782 10/07/04 01:13 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 14,262
Jolly Offline OP
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
OP Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 14,262
No.

This administration went to war after Sadaam broke 18 UN resolutions. Many of those transgressions involved launching missles at U.S. aircraft, patrolling the no-fly zone.

That, sir, is an act of War.

If Sadaam would have allowed inspectors into his country, ran his oil-for-food program as he should have, and quit SHOOTING AT PEOPLE, he would still be in power.

In all things, there is a time for talking, and a time for action.

We talked for over a decade. Maybe we got tired of only hearing the echo of our own voices...


TNCR. Over 20 years. Over 2,000,000 posts. And a new site...

https://nodebb.the-new-coffee-room.club

Where pianists and others talk about everything. And nothing.
Re: Climate of Fear
#734783 10/07/04 01:16 PM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 267
T
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
T
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 267
Well stated, Jolly! thumb

Everybody now has better than 20/20 hindsight, and bad memories. mad

Re: Climate of Fear
#734784 10/08/04 07:35 AM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 2,138
2000 Post Club Member
Online Content
2000 Post Club Member
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 2,138
Nice re-writing of history...

From reading your post, one could think that there was a decade of concensus building and gathering of allies to fight the "resident evil". That doesn't match with the rush to war, "go it alone" philosophy taken by the current power structure. Even more interesting is the statement that I'm hearing about hindsight being 20/20. Have we all forgotten about the massive national and international protests against diving into Iraq?

But back to the origional concern: a lessening of civility between Dems and Reps in America. I wonder how far this goes back, as you state, there have been many ugly clashes over the years. Leave it to the Republicans to cry over property damage as opposed to death or damaged lives...

For sure it was brought to the fore front during the Clinton years with his cavalier attitude felt during the whole impeachment fiasco. (What's the meaning of "is"?) This only served to enrage a large portion of our country, while to others, Clinton's behavior, while not supported, certainly wasn't worth getting worked up over.

Enough people felt that Clinton and Gore (by association) no longer represented what their country was about, so they chose another representative. Now with the way that Bush and Co. have run roughshod over.... well everything, it's no suprise that there is a large part of the American public enraged - and feel that he doesn't represent what their country is about.

Are there enough out there willing to choose a different path? Not too much longer now...

Re: Climate of Fear
#734785 10/08/04 07:50 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 14,262
Jolly Offline OP
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
OP Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 14,262
Quote
But back to the origional concern: a lessening of civility between Dems and Reps in America. I wonder how far this goes back, as you state, there have been many ugly clashes over the years. Leave it to the Republicans to cry over property damage as opposed to death or damaged lives...
I gave you examples, you gave me rhetoric.

The attack on Republicans was orchestrated, and planned. Yet, you show no shame.

Typical....


TNCR. Over 20 years. Over 2,000,000 posts. And a new site...

https://nodebb.the-new-coffee-room.club

Where pianists and others talk about everything. And nothing.
Re: Climate of Fear
#734786 10/08/04 08:50 AM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 2,138
2000 Post Club Member
Online Content
2000 Post Club Member
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 2,138
From the hyperdictionary:

rhetoric- Definition: [n] study of the technique and rules for using language effectively (especially in public speaking)

why, thank you!

I personally think there's enough shame to share on all sides.

Maybe it's time to start over and realize that our representatives in government are employees of ..... us!

If I were leaning toward conspiracy theories today, I might say that the career politicians are all in this together and use the polorizing issues to convince the electorate that they are on "our" side, and watch out for the other guy - ensuring that they will always have backers somewhere.

Are the politicians getting their jobs done? Are they really the most effective people for the job? Am I starting to sound like a Naderite? (yikes!, I better get going..)

Re: Climate of Fear
#734787 10/08/04 08:53 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 14,262
Jolly Offline OP
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
OP Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 14,262
I'm not leaning towards conspiracy theories, I'm leaning on facts. Much of the violence perpetrated at the Bush Campaign headquarters can be laid directly at the feet of organized labor - that is who coordinated, bought, and paid for the folks to make it so.

Please read a bit, and you will find the trail that leads back to the unions...


TNCR. Over 20 years. Over 2,000,000 posts. And a new site...

https://nodebb.the-new-coffee-room.club

Where pianists and others talk about everything. And nothing.
Re: Climate of Fear
#734788 10/08/04 09:15 AM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 2,138
2000 Post Club Member
Online Content
2000 Post Club Member
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 2,138
Just as other trails lead to churches, big business, overseas... Hey, we're all connected - money talks!

Re: Climate of Fear
#734789 10/08/04 09:21 AM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 2,138
2000 Post Club Member
Online Content
2000 Post Club Member
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 2,138
Hey, I just thought of something.
If money talks, and I cashed the bribe check, (care of Bush & Co.) does that mean I'm part of the evil Empire too?

Re: Climate of Fear
#734790 10/08/04 09:30 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 14,262
Jolly Offline OP
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
OP Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 14,262
Quote
Originally posted by RonTuner:
Just as other trails lead to churches, big business, overseas... Hey, we're all connected - money talks!
Please give specific instances where the Bush campaign, or people connected with the Bush camapign have orchestrated violence against the Kerry Campaign.

I'm waiting for your reply.


TNCR. Over 20 years. Over 2,000,000 posts. And a new site...

https://nodebb.the-new-coffee-room.club

Where pianists and others talk about everything. And nothing.
Re: Climate of Fear
#734791 10/08/04 09:38 AM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 2,138
2000 Post Club Member
Online Content
2000 Post Club Member
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 2,138
Oh, remind me again who got hurt?

Re: Climate of Fear
#734792 10/08/04 09:45 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 14,262
Jolly Offline OP
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
OP Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 14,262
Quit being stupid.

You can't answer the question, say so.

Your defense is that "everybody does it". That is incorrect, and sophomoric.


TNCR. Over 20 years. Over 2,000,000 posts. And a new site...

https://nodebb.the-new-coffee-room.club

Where pianists and others talk about everything. And nothing.
Re: Climate of Fear
#734793 10/08/04 10:02 AM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 2,138
2000 Post Club Member
Online Content
2000 Post Club Member
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 2,138
No, just clarifying _your_ definition of violence. It seems that anyone that has a sticker or a sign becomes a member of a campaign, and violence equals any damage to something of value to that person.

So, how 'bout the corporate attack during the California energy crisis? How 'bout the attack to clinics across the states that support a women's right to choose? How 'bout the legislative attacks on the environment, education, and healthcare issues? If you want to look, we can see where the Saudi money is flowing this week...

Really, I thought you might be able to see "out of the box" a little more than that.

If 1000 or so Americans have died in Iraq, and around 7-8000 have been injured, why have there been more than 20,000 soldiers airlifted to the states, or Germany for treatment? (someone cooking the books, perhaps?) If you are really concerned with violence, look into what's going on over there. Or was this just a another political potshot like usual?

Re: Climate of Fear
#734794 10/08/04 10:48 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 14,262
Jolly Offline OP
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
OP Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 14,262
Now you are obfuscating.

We have suddenly turned violence by Democrap low-lifes against Americans exercising their rights to campaign, into a screed on corporate shenanigans, and some type of ill-informed silliness on Iraq casualties.

And for your information, these acts of violence did not take place against just anybody with a bumper sticker, they took place at Bush re-election headquarters, in various cities.

I'm sure your next wobbling reply will be something along the line of why the Administration kills puppys.... :rolleyes:


TNCR. Over 20 years. Over 2,000,000 posts. And a new site...

https://nodebb.the-new-coffee-room.club

Where pianists and others talk about everything. And nothing.
Re: Climate of Fear
#734795 10/08/04 10:49 AM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 476
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 476
To get back a bit to the original issue, I am not sure if the political climate is more intimidating this year or not. It certainly seems more rancorous. I have never put lawn signs out, even when I was supporting Clinton, certainly not when I was supporting Bush. I never wanted to expose myself to conflict, let alone vandalism. However, I would note that if Enron jacks my rate, or gov't passes a law that won't pay for my kid's school lunch, or if the City of Portland raises fees on every transaction, perhaps this equates to an "attack" - but it does make me afraid for the safety of my family or myself. If someone where to scratch my car or stomp my yard sign, then I would be afraid.

"Can't we all just get along?" Rodney King


Above all, love each other deeply, because love covers over a multitude of sins. (1 Pet 4:7-8 NIV)
Re: Climate of Fear
#734796 10/08/04 10:51 AM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 476
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 476
Oops! Proof read! "does not make me afraid..." and "if someone were to scratch my car..."


Above all, love each other deeply, because love covers over a multitude of sins. (1 Pet 4:7-8 NIV)
Re: Climate of Fear
#734797 10/08/04 11:31 AM
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 233
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 233
This article really resonated with me.
Quote
Many Bush supporters avoid the whole problem by adopting a flag strategy. American flags, yellow ribbons, and signs saying "Support our troops" function in many places as proxies for Bush-Cheney signs.
This is exactly what I do, and what many people in my part of the state have started doing. You see tons of these magnetic ribbons on the road. I'm in NYS, and you can imagine that Bush/Cheney materials are not too popular here.

Thanks for sharing the article.


Kawai RX-6, Satin Ebony
--------------------
Ringo - "I am the best drummer in the world."
Lennon - "He's not even the best drummer in the band."
Page 1 of 2 1 2

Link Copied to Clipboard
(ad)
Pianoteq
PianoTeq Karsten Collection
(ad)
PianoDisc

PianoDisc
(ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad)
Mason & Hamlin Pianos
What's Hot!!
News from the Piano World
Our October 2020 Free Piano Newsletter is Here!
---------------------
3,000,000+!
------------------
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
Forums RULES & HELP
-------------------
ADVERTISE on Piano World
New Topics - Multiple Forums
New DP Buyer Needs Help :-)
by Badger1966 - 10/21/20 09:12 AM
Kawai es920 - record onto Android Smartphone
by big-vern - 10/21/20 04:51 AM
MP11SE in stock at bhphoto.com
by mivaldes - 10/20/20 10:35 PM
most common non ET temperaments in 2020?
by MartF - 10/20/20 08:56 PM
Download Sheet Music
Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads
Forum Statistics
Forums41
Topics202,334
Posts3,015,668
Members98,964
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
Please Support Our Advertisers


Faust Harrison 100+ Steinways

Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver

 Best of Piano Buyer

PianoTeq Bechstein
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads



 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter |


copyright 1997 - 2020 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.4