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#724521 - 03/22/05 10:39 AM Re: Terri Schiavo: Starving to death as we speak...  
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 515
RZ Offline
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RZ  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 515
Anaheim, CA
Quote
Originally posted by QuirtEvans:
"Congress could have just said, 'put that damned feeding tube back in.'"

No, they couldn't. Even this Congress recognized that they did not have Constitutional authority to do that.
Quirt, could you explain to me why not.

I thought that if the courts were dealing with law (as opposed to Constitutional questions) the Congress could change the law.

Why would this not have been permissible?

And for any of you attorneys....

I also thought that it was unconstitutional for the Congress to adopt a law that is as narrowly focused as this one -- aimed at one individual, as opposed to a class of individuals. Does this not come into play here? If not, why not?

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#724522 - 03/22/05 10:54 AM Re: Terri Schiavo: Starving to death as we speak...  
Joined: Jan 2002
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JBryan Offline
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JBryan  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 9,798
Oklahoma City
Quote
Originally posted by RZ:
I hope we all remember this. We are dealing with real human beings here. Neither side is evil; both are acting their sense of compassion and love even if we think they may be misguided.

All of the conspiracy theories, all of the attacks on the characters of either party and especially all of the crass politics are unimportant.
That's funny, yesterday you were describing her parents as sick.


Better to light one small candle than to curse the %&#$@#! darkness. :t:
#724523 - 03/22/05 10:56 AM Re: Terri Schiavo: Starving to death as we speak...  
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 6,971
kathyk Offline
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kathyk  Offline
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 6,971
Maine
David, I have not read nor located the whole GAL report. It's very long - some 40 pages. Above your post, however, is a piece about the GAL, with recent statements and excerpts from his findings.

I too, couldn't agree more with your conclusions. I nearly posted similar thoughts, but rethought, knowing that anything I might have to interject about faith would fall on deaf ears around here.

I had a legal assistant (I'll call her Sue) who had lost her 21 yo son. He fell off a 20 story building in Singapore while his Naval ship was temporarily docked. THe circumsances surrounding his death were very mysterious, and no one was able to conclude how or why he fell. It had been a year since his death when I hired Sue. My heart ached for her and her loss. But, after watching how she used this death almost as a crutch in her life, I finally became disgusted with her. Sue allowed this to take over her life, to the detriment of her adolscent, living son, her husband and her job.
Hardly a conversation would arise when the lost son didn't become part of it. She made it clear to the younger son that it would have been preferable if he had been the one to die. It was no suprise (to me anyway) when he started skipping school and threatening suicide. She wallowed in drepesssion, and toward the end of her 2 1/2 year stint with me was absent from work more than she was present. It was a difficult decision, but I finally had no choice, but to let her go. I later found out that her problems preceded her son's death; she had huge absenteism problems at a previous job. The death, however, gave her a handy excuse, and one that I was sucked right into up until the end. I wonder about Ms. Schiavo's parents; what sort of void are they filling or lingering guilt they are assuaging. God knows, losing a child would be the absolute pits. If it ever happened to me, God grant me the strength to grieve and to move on.


PS, JB, sick does not equal evil.

#724524 - 03/22/05 11:01 AM Re: Terri Schiavo: Starving to death as we speak...  
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RZ Offline
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RZ  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2004
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Anaheim, CA
Quote
Originally posted by JBryan:
Quote
Originally posted by RZ:
[b] I hope we all remember this. We are dealing with real human beings here. Neither side is evil; both are acting their sense of compassion and love even if we think they may be misguided.

All of the conspiracy theories, all of the attacks on the characters of either party and especially all of the crass politics are unimportant.
That's funny, yesterday you were describing her parents as sick. [/b]
How nice, a personal attack. Sure adds to the discussion, JBryan. But then, this seems to be your input more often than not in discussions on here.

Yes, based on information taken from a lengthy and credible report, I agreed with David Burton's characterization of their actions.

Whether they are sick or not does not deny they love their daughter and that they are in great pain. Please do not trivialize what they are going through.

#724525 - 03/22/05 11:03 AM Re: Terri Schiavo: Starving to death as we speak...  
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 9,217
Larry Offline
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Larry  Offline
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Joined: May 2001
Posts: 9,217
Deep in Cherokee Country
Quote
Originally posted by Cindysphinx:
And Congress isn't bought and sold?

Uh, OK.
Every day, particularly the democrats. Their party after all, is nothing but a mass of special interest groups, ranging from little blue haired grandma's who have been scared to death over their social security checks (by their own party, I might add) to full blown antiAmerican outfits bent on the destruction of our country.


Life isn't measured by the breaths you take. Life is measured by the things that left you breathless
#724526 - 03/22/05 11:04 AM Re: Terri Schiavo: Starving to death as we speak...  
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 9,798
JBryan Offline
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JBryan  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 9,798
Oklahoma City
Quote
Originally posted by RZ:
How nice, a personal attack. Sure adds to the discussion, JBryan. But then, this seems to be your input more often than not in discussions on here.
What personal attack? I am reciting the facts as they are. If you find it attacks you personally then maybe you should look to yourself.


Better to light one small candle than to curse the %&#$@#! darkness. :t:
#724527 - 03/22/05 11:05 AM Re: Terri Schiavo: Starving to death as we speak...  
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 515
RZ Offline
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RZ  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 515
Anaheim, CA
Quote
Originally posted by JBryan:
Quote
Originally posted by RZ:
[b] How nice, a personal attack. Sure adds to the discussion, JBryan. But then, this seems to be your input more often than not in discussions on here.
What personal attack? I am reciting the facts as they are. If you find it attacks you personally then maybe you should look to yourself. [/b]
Maybe you should just add something of value to the discussion.

#724528 - 03/22/05 11:08 AM Re: Terri Schiavo: Starving to death as we speak...  
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 9,798
JBryan Offline
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JBryan  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 9,798
Oklahoma City
I will happily accept the judgment of others on that account if they are in agreement with you.


Better to light one small candle than to curse the %&#$@#! darkness. :t:
#724529 - 03/22/05 11:20 AM Re: Terri Schiavo: Starving to death as we speak...  
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 9,217
Larry Offline
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Larry  Offline
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Joined: May 2001
Posts: 9,217
Deep in Cherokee Country
How nice, a personal attack. Sure adds to the discussion, JBryan. But then, this seems to be your input more often than not in discussions on here.

I don't see where you can say that was a personal attack, and Jbryan rarely says *anything* that one could take as such.


Life isn't measured by the breaths you take. Life is measured by the things that left you breathless
#724530 - 03/22/05 11:24 AM Re: Terri Schiavo: Starving to death as we speak...  
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 9,217
Larry Offline
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Larry  Offline
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Joined: May 2001
Posts: 9,217
Deep in Cherokee Country
Maybe you should just add something of value to the discussion.

Maybe he did and you just don't like it. The closest thing I saw to a personal attack was your attempt to paint those who disagree with you as conspiracy theorists. There is plenty of evidence in the public arena to justify the opinion that the husband may have committed a crime.


Life isn't measured by the breaths you take. Life is measured by the things that left you breathless
#724531 - 03/22/05 11:33 AM Re: Terri Schiavo: Starving to death as we speak...  
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 1,759
David Burton Offline
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David Burton  Offline
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Coxsackie, New York
I tell you KathyK, had this "Sue" been working for me, I would have tossed her out a long time before you did. I have very little patience with certain things, especially since I have gone through this life problem (a whole lot more common than not) and have gone on and gotten over it long ago.

How about this case? A woman has six children, her oldest had a cancerous growth on one leg, had that leg amputated to the knee and the shock resulted in the child going schizophrenic. Tough case, but what do you do? You have five more kids to raise. Why so many kids? No birth control: good Catholic. Her husband wasn't (until close to death, in order to satisfy her, he made a bedside conversion) and wanted to have his oldest child put into some halfway house where at least she could have a social life of sorts. But none were good enough for the mother in that they use heavy drugs (yes, the daughter is functioning on meds anyway), and none of these places would use orthomolecular techniques (massive doses of vitamins) to effect a "cure" for her daughter's condition. As far as I know most schizophrenia is incurable and actually leaves telltale lesions on the nerves, observable under autopsies. None of this evidence has ever convinced her that a "miracle" isn't possible given enough prayer and action. Of course there are some documented cures for this condition, but one wonders whether these recoveries are ever complete or permanent. Anyway the result on the rest of the family was fairly terrible, five younger siblings (all grown now) who are to varying degrees hostile to the surviving mother and sister. The mother has spent lavishly on this daughter and fears what may happen if and when she dies to this child.

You may find it amusing that I happen to agree with you on the Schiavo case while on other matters we may never agree. I could have told you that it would happen some day which is why it is wise never to get too personal with one's criticisms here or elsewhere. We may very well have opposing ideas, but I bet we'd like each other in person, it often happens that way.

#724532 - 03/22/05 11:56 AM Re: Terri Schiavo: Starving to death as we speak...  
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 515
RZ Offline
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RZ  Offline
500 Post Club Member

Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 515
Anaheim, CA
Even more common....

How many parents have allowed their families to fall apart or at least be seriously damaged because one child is a drug addict and the parent focuses almost exclusively on that child, convinced they can cure the child who is unwilling to help him/herself, and angrily demands the rest of the family placate and pander to their sibling's actions as well?

One of the reports I read this morning quoted Ms. Schiavo's brother talking about the pain his parents felt when they heard the judge's ruling denying the injunction. His quote was something along the lines of hjow horrible it was to see his parents hurting so much and that anyone would fight to keep their parents from feeling that way.

As I read this I thought that this is the real issue for the family. The parents simply cannot bring themselves to let their loved child go and the other children are trying to save the parents this pain.

#724533 - 03/22/05 12:18 PM Re: Terri Schiavo: Starving to death as we speak...  
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 1,759
David Burton Offline
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David Burton  Offline
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Posts: 1,759
Coxsackie, New York
Quote
Originally posted by RZ:
The parents simply cannot bring themselves to let their loved child go and the other children are trying to save the parents this pain.
...and THIS is at the heart of the matter. The parents are sickos and they have used all the old fashioned guilt imaginable to support their parents' sickness. THE ONLY PROBLEM IS THAT THE REST OF US DON'T STAND IN FRONT OF THESE PEOPLE AND CALL THEM WHAT THEY ARE!

Now we are hearing all kinds of stuff about Michael Schiavo; a filed affidavit by a nurse who took care of Terri Schiavo saying he poisoned her while bragging about all the money he was going to make and with it all the toys and travel he would buy, we hear about a doctor who wants to be a hero (a so called Nobel nominee, no way of proving, bad journalism to report it any other way than as "alleged"), etc. etc.

None of the upper courts are going to do anything, so that brings it back to the Florida legislature, but meanwhile...

THE FEEDING TUBE HAS BEEN REMOVED NOW FOR FOUR DAYS AND SO THIS WOMAN IS NOW ABLE TO DIE BY NATURAL CAUSES.

People, you had BETTER get your wishes in writing so that this never happens to you.

#724534 - 03/27/05 03:53 PM Re: Terri Schiavo: Starving to death as we speak...  
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Posts: 7,051
kenny Offline
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kenny  Offline
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Joined: May 2001
Posts: 7,051
This is a private family matter.

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