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#724461 - 03/21/05 01:35 PM Re: Terri Schiavo: Starving to death as we speak...  
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Cindysphinx Offline
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JB, come on.

These people want this woman kept around. It gives them comfort. It makes them feel better. It's kind of like a newborn's smile -- it ain't a smile, but it thrills you nonetheless.

I can understand that. I might behave exactly the way these people are if it were my child. I might do anything to avoid facing my grief, to hang onto hope, even if it weren't the best thing for my child.

That doesn't make it right.

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#724462 - 03/21/05 01:38 PM Re: Terri Schiavo: Starving to death as we speak...  
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QuirtEvans Offline
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"I simply asked for some verification as to the reliability of your statements"

No, you didn't, Junior. You could have done that by saying this: "I haven't seen that anywhere, where did you find that?"

Instead, you chose to be insulting. You implied that it might be a conspiracy theory.

Maybe your professors can teach you how to ask questions without insulting implications. It helps when you make it into the real world.


If you use lines like "a hyena with hiccups", you might be a redneck.
#724463 - 03/21/05 01:39 PM Re: Terri Schiavo: Starving to death as we speak...  
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JBryan Offline
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Quote
Originally posted by Cindysphinx:
JB, come on.

These people want this woman kept around. It gives them comfort. It makes them feel better. It's kind of like a newborn's smile -- it ain't a smile, but it thrills you nonetheless.

I can understand that. I might behave exactly the way these people are if it were my child. I might do anything to avoid facing my grief, to hang onto hope, even if it weren't the best thing for my child.

That doesn't make it right.
We should not base our disposition of Terri's future on what we perceive about her parents' (or her husband's) intentions. Again, what harm is done in allowing a review by a federal court. The outcome may very well be no different.


Better to light one small candle than to curse the %&#$@#! darkness. :t:
#724464 - 03/21/05 01:39 PM Re: Terri Schiavo: Starving to death as we speak...  
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Cindysphinx Offline
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I have no problem with federal review in Terry situation if there were some reason to believe federal rights need to be protected and the states are incapable of protecting her rights.

That's not what's going on here, of course. There's no claim Terry hasn't had due process. Her family just doesn't like the answer they got.

But if you want to talk death penalty, can I assume that you're in favor of allowing death penalty appeals to go on forever? Some death penalty enthusiasts have been known to advocate time limits on these things . . . .

Imagine how busy our federal courts will soon be? Husband and wife can't agree what to do with the frozen embryos? Take it to state court and then the loser takes it to federal court.

Careful what you ask for, folks . . .

#724465 - 03/21/05 01:41 PM Re: Terri Schiavo: Starving to death as we speak...  
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Cindysphinx Offline
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Oh, hey. The other thing I read in the guardian ad litem paper was that the medical malpractice settlement was exhausted already.

#724466 - 03/21/05 01:42 PM Re: Terri Schiavo: Starving to death as we speak...  
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Quote
Originally posted by Jack Frost:
Quote
Originally posted by The 89th Key:
[b] I would support the husband 100% had he led an exclusive marriage with Terri, but while she was in the hospital he cheated on her, committed adultery, etc...so he lost his right (IMO) to have a say in her situation, so the burden then is on the next of Kin, her parents. And whatever they decide, I would support.
That's about the dumbest thing I have read in a very long time.

jf [/b]
Then you should read his other posts in this thread. You're in for a treat.

#724467 - 03/21/05 01:43 PM Re: Terri Schiavo: Starving to death as we speak...  
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Mercutio Offline
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Quote
Originally posted by Cindysphinx:
JB, come on.

These people want this woman kept around. It gives them comfort. It makes them feel better. It's kind of like a newborn's smile -- it ain't a smile, but it thrills you nonetheless.

I can understand that. I might behave exactly the way these people are if it were my child. I might do anything to avoid facing my grief, to hang onto hope, even if it weren't the best thing for my child.

That doesn't make it right.
Granted: you little Liberals feel compassion. Why not the BIG liberals? Where are they?

Where's Hillary and Teddy and Johnny?

laugh

GET IN TUNE with your party Cindy-seek (and you shall find,) the Easter Bunny recess.

(Liberals are all such ego and posturing. :rolleyes: )


I'm not a puppet, I'm a real boy--Pinocchio
#724468 - 03/21/05 01:44 PM Re: Terri Schiavo: Starving to death as we speak...  
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Perhaps 89th will read the guardian ad litem report about what kind of guardian Michael was. Apparently, his behavior and decision-making was beyond reproach.

Poor guy. He's really been dragged through the mud unfairly, based on what I've read in the court order and guardian report.

#724469 - 03/21/05 01:45 PM Re: Terri Schiavo: Starving to death as we speak...  
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Cindysphinx Offline
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Mercutio, you're not making any sense. Sorry, I'd like to engage with you but I just can't.

#724470 - 03/21/05 01:45 PM Re: Terri Schiavo: Starving to death as we speak...  
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QuirtEvans Offline
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"What I read from this testimony was the family presented with one grisly hypothetical after another and steadfastly refusing to say, "Yes, we would let her die then". One does not have to paint them as sick to understand why they would not concede to any invented hypothetical in a courtroom situation."

There's an easy way to answer a hypothetical without messing with your case. You say: "That's hypothetical, I haven't thought about it, and I don't know." If the lawyer presses you to think about it on the stand, you say, "That's a very difficult question, and that isn't the situation we're facing right now. Off the top of my head, if I have to answer now, I don't know." Any decent lawyer, in prepping a witness, tells them not to deal with hypotheticals, and that, if they don't know, say they don't know, and don't guess. Obviously, based on the guardian ad litem's report, that's not what they said.


If you use lines like "a hyena with hiccups", you might be a redneck.
#724471 - 03/21/05 01:45 PM Re: Terri Schiavo: Starving to death as we speak...  
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Jack Frost Offline
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Quote
Originally posted by JBryan:
Again, what harm is done in allowing a review by a federal court. The outcome may very well be no different.
Another year or two delay as the case goes up to the US Supreme Court. If this is a good thing, why did Congress not pass a law allowing all such cases this level of review?

Because it is a bad idea, implemented in this one situation for purely political reasons.

The shame of it!

jf


"Make the pie higher." GWB
#724472 - 03/21/05 01:47 PM Re: Terri Schiavo: Starving to death as we speak...  
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Jolly Offline
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Ah yes, if you don't agree with us, you're idiots.

You're stupid. Dumb. Unworthy to be seen in public, as your drool bothers the intellegentsia.

Let me pause awhile, so that I may dance with joy.

I like the Republican Party, and it warms me to see so many of you determined to keep them in power.

Thank you from the bottom of my heart....


www.coffee-room.com

Over 1.3M (and counting) posts where pianists discuss everything. And nothing.
#724473 - 03/21/05 01:53 PM Re: Terri Schiavo: Starving to death as we speak...  
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Mercutio Offline
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Quote
Originally posted by Cindysphinx:
Mercutio, you're not making any sense. Sorry, I'd like to engage with you but I just can't.
Sorry, Cindy

The leaders of the Democratic party are disengaged form this discussion? Yes? No?

I am questioning their non participation in this national issue.

What is the position of the Democratic leadership in congress?

Fill me in--please.


I'm not a puppet, I'm a real boy--Pinocchio
#724474 - 03/21/05 01:54 PM Re: Terri Schiavo: Starving to death as we speak...  
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JBryan Offline
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Quote
Originally posted by QuirtEvans:
There's an easy way to answer a hypothetical without messing with your case. You say: "That's hypothetical, I haven't thought about it, and I don't know." If the lawyer presses you to think about it on the stand, you say, "That's a very difficult question, and that isn't the situation we're facing right now. Off the top of my head, if I have to answer now, I don't know." Any decent lawyer, in prepping a witness, tells them not to deal with hypotheticals, and that, if they don't know, say they don't know, and don't guess. Obviously, based on the guardian ad litem's report, that's not what they said.
Do you know for a fact that they were so well prepped or are you just hypothesizing?


Better to light one small candle than to curse the %&#$@#! darkness. :t:
#724475 - 03/21/05 01:54 PM Re: Terri Schiavo: Starving to death as we speak...  
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Mr. E Offline
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Quote
Originally posted by QuirtEvans:

Videos can be staged and doctored. These were videos obtained surreptitiously (and in contravention of a court order) by the family, after all, and we all know that they are totally unbiased, right?

This is from page 3 of this thread Quirt. Perhaps you don't remember posting this. I would classify that as conspiracy theory, because it is based on no facts. There is no evidence that the video was doctored.

With that in mind, I was highly sceptical of you posting this new information, since no one else had. I asked for verification, you delivered verification, along with insults.

And you seem to have this uncanny fascination with my age. Perhaps you should go back to college, and find a professor who can teach you humility, because you can't seem to accept the fact that you're no better than I.

#724476 - 03/21/05 01:57 PM Re: Terri Schiavo: Starving to death as we speak...  
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Funny side thought: Think about all the good Ms. Shiavo's parents could have done over the past decade had they invested their energies and money expended on fighting to keep their daughter's body artificially sustained and spent those resources on bringing some foster children into their home.

#724477 - 03/21/05 01:58 PM Re: Terri Schiavo: Starving to death as we speak...  
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Cindysphinx Offline
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Quote
Sorry, Cindy

The leaders of the Democratic party are disengaged form this discussion? Yes? No?

I am questioning their non participation in this national issue.

What is the position of the Democratic leadership in congress?

Fill me in--please.
Oh, you want to discuss Republican and Democratic politics?

I'm sorry, but I prefer not to discuss politics in the CR. I don't mind a bit of law or these "right to die" kinds of issues, but someone else will have to answer the questions you pose. Again, I apologize.

#724478 - 03/21/05 02:02 PM Re: Terri Schiavo: Starving to death as we speak...  
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Mercutio Offline
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Cindy,

You have been left to hang out and dry on the line buy your bosses.

There's some SERIOUS Easter Bunny photo ops going on with Democratic Members of Congress these days.

laugh


I'm not a puppet, I'm a real boy--Pinocchio
#724479 - 03/21/05 02:02 PM Re: Terri Schiavo: Starving to death as we speak...  
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JBryan Offline
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Quote
Originally posted by Cindysphinx:
I have no problem with federal review in Terry situation if there were some reason to believe federal rights need to be protected and the states are incapable of protecting her rights.

That's not what's going on here, of course. There's no claim Terry hasn't had due process. Her family just doesn't like the answer they got.

But if you want to talk death penalty, can I assume that you're in favor of allowing death penalty appeals to go on forever? Some death penalty enthusiasts have been known to advocate time limits on these things . . . .

Imagine how busy our federal courts will soon be? Husband and wife can't agree what to do with the frozen embryos? Take it to state court and then the loser takes it to federal court.

Careful what you ask for, folks . . .
If one is granted access to the federal appeals process then they are entitled to the full extent of that process. Equal protection and all, you see. I feel the same about death penalty convictions as long as they are genuinely about guilt or innocence and not some extraneous process matter as they often are.


Better to light one small candle than to curse the %&#$@#! darkness. :t:
#724480 - 03/21/05 02:09 PM Re: Terri Schiavo: Starving to death as we speak...  
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QuirtEvans Offline
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"you can't seem to accept the fact that you're no better than I."

Assuming that I do think that I am better than you, there's two possibilities, Master E.

Either I think I am better than you, and I'm wrong.

Or I think I am better than you, and I'm right.

I opt for choice #2.


If you use lines like "a hyena with hiccups", you might be a redneck.
#724481 - 03/21/05 02:13 PM Re: Terri Schiavo: Starving to death as we speak...  
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QuirtEvans Offline
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"Do you know for a fact that they were so well prepped or are you just hypothesizing?"

I never said that they were well prepped. I said that any decent lawyer would have prepped them that way. I've given that sort of warning to witnesses in prep for depositions, and I'm not even a trial lawyer.

The urge to respond to hypotheticals is sometimes irresistible, but almost always unhelpful.


If you use lines like "a hyena with hiccups", you might be a redneck.
#724482 - 03/21/05 02:16 PM Re: Terri Schiavo: Starving to death as we speak...  
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JBryan Offline
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It is quite apparent that you are absolutely right about that.


Better to light one small candle than to curse the %&#$@#! darkness. :t:
#724483 - 03/21/05 02:16 PM Re: Terri Schiavo: Starving to death as we speak...  
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QuirtEvans Offline
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"Again, what harm is done in allowing a review by a federal court. The outcome may very well be no different."

This is the most powerful argument in favor of the Schiavo law. It is, in fact, the same argument that opponents of the death penalty use to get state court verdicts reviewed in federal court.

However, to quote Jolly, I smell a rat. Hopefully, the federal judge will give appropriate deference to state court findings, as he would in a death penalty case, he'll reach the same conclusion, and Congress will be mollified. But I smell a rat.


If you use lines like "a hyena with hiccups", you might be a redneck.
#724484 - 03/21/05 02:19 PM Re: Terri Schiavo: Starving to death as we speak...  
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Quote
Originally posted by QuirtEvans:
"you can't seem to accept the fact that you're no better than I."

Assuming that I do think that I am better than you, there's two possibilities, Master E.

Either I think I am better than you, and I'm wrong.

Or I think I am better than you, and I'm right.

I opt for choice #2.
A perfect example of your humility. I shall say no more.

#724485 - 03/21/05 02:20 PM Re: Terri Schiavo: Starving to death as we speak...  
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Cindysphinx Offline
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What I don't get is why so many people are suddenly so willing to substitute their own (partially-informed) judgment for that of the judge? I mean, if a judge or jury aquits Robert Blake or conficts Mike Tyson, we just accept that they heard the evidence and their judgment should be respected.

Is the problem that it was a judge and not a jury? Should these "right to die" cases be tried to a jury, and would people respect the decision if that were the case?

#724486 - 03/21/05 02:40 PM Re: Terri Schiavo: Starving to death as we speak...  
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Mercutio Offline
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Quote
Originally posted by Cindysphinx:
What I don't get is why so many people are suddenly so willing to substitute their own (partially-informed) judgment for that of the judge?
'cous we American's feels that judges are pretty much just ahhhh--JUST IDIOTS.


I'm not a puppet, I'm a real boy--Pinocchio
#724487 - 03/21/05 02:59 PM Re: Terri Schiavo: Starving to death as we speak...  
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apple* Offline
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Quote
Originally posted by Cindysphinx:

Is the problem that it was a judge and not a jury? Should these "right to die" cases be tried to a jury, and would people respect the decision if that were the case?
Everyone knows that justice is often bought and sold here. It's a travesty but true.


accompanist/organist.. a non-MTNA teacher to a few

love and peace, Õun (apple in Estonian)
#724488 - 03/21/05 03:01 PM Re: Terri Schiavo: Starving to death as we speak...  
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Cindysphinx Offline
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And Congress isn't bought and sold?

Uh, OK.

#724489 - 03/21/05 03:03 PM Re: Terri Schiavo: Starving to death as we speak...  
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apple* Offline
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that's true too.... what are we to do?


accompanist/organist.. a non-MTNA teacher to a few

love and peace, Õun (apple in Estonian)
#724490 - 03/21/05 03:04 PM Re: Terri Schiavo: Starving to death as we speak...  
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Jack Frost Offline
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Quote
Originally posted by apple*:
Quote
Originally posted by Cindysphinx:
[b]
Is the problem that it was a judge and not a jury? Should these "right to die" cases be tried to a jury, and would people respect the decision if that were the case?
Everyone knows that justice is often bought and sold here. It's a travesty but true. [/b]
But if there is a better system, then let's change the law and do it the better way. Making this a federal case helps nobody. Is simply represents the very worst sort of political pandering.

Frist of all people should know better. Feeding tubes are removed every day so that people can die with dignity.

jf


"Make the pie higher." GWB
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