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Sweden eh?
I wonder if Osama is planning on hanging out (hiding out) in the cold long nights of Sweden this winter? Maybe he’s getting some special medical treatment there for his numerous reported medical conditions. Who knows?
This thread sure has been a hoot to read. Some people are trying to act so Peter Jenningsish concerned, while others are just playing around.
Seriously though, a superior attitude (as evinced for the bulk of John Kerry’s career), will get you (outside of Massachusetts where apparently they fall for this stuff pretty often), absolutely nothing. So keep it up lefties. Otherwise, the right will be in power here for a very long time.
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Are there any lefties on this thread? Where?
jf
"Make the pie higher." GWB
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"If we lose freedom here, there's no place to escape to." MSU - the university of Michigan! Wheels
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Originally posted by Ben D.: Originally posted by The 89th Key: [b] Originally posted by Ben D.: [b] </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by The 89th Key: <strong> yahpaapapabo, ... THAT is why you are a moron. I'm staying out of this thread, but I must say that if the pot calling the kettle black. Or, in this case, the black pot calling the blue kettle black. [/b]
Seriously, where DO you get all those facts? I mean, I try and post facts, and sometimes I post opinion, but WOW!!!!
You are just bubbling over with facts and evidence....seriously, you should be a lawyer.
Because you know, lawyers use facts to support their argument, and with all those facts and examples that you displayed, you'd win every case.
Are you giving a seminar soon on how to support your arguments, because when you said that cute lil 'pot calling blue kettle, etc.' line, I said to myself, "WOW! this guy not only says what he thinks, but he shows why he thinks it and then supports it with an overwhelming amount of evidence." [/b]Sorry, but I couldn't help it. It was too easy. You tried to respond to my post with sarcasm, but it didn't work because it wasn't funny or insulting. You basically said my post was stupid because it was opinion. So was the post of yours that I quoted. Silly winger... next time you get pwned don't reply to it  . </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">For once, I have to agree with Ben. 89th, that was just terrible.
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reb - So, again, I ask you: how many actual Al Qaida internal theory documents have you yourself read? It seems from your last post that you have read none (or else you would have cited them), and therefore, as usual, know absolutely zip about what you are talking about. You just like elements of his videotape that agree (!) with what you yourself already think.
Bin Laden wants to split and confuse and then conquer all Western powers, including Sweden. He regards it as meritorious to kill or convert every non-muslim, and seeks total world domination under the Islamic Caliphate. Anything less is a sin in the eyes of Allah. I did not get this from GWB, or the National Review, I got this from reading about a dozen or so translated theory manuals and documents written by Al Qaida theorists, including Bin Laden, but also many others. My views on their goals, comes from reading what they say, over and over again, they want to do: murder all non-muslims. Evidence of this was Zarqawi's recent murder of 50 Iraqi police officers. You probably view this as some sort of weird anti-imperialism. Zarqawi said he killed them because they were Shias (i.e. non-muslims, in his view).
Reb - their is no point in arguing with someone who won't even look at undisputed hard facts and evidence, such as Al Qaida's own actual documents.
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Originally posted by yhabpo: I bet you if someone had kidnapped you and your family, holding them hostage in your basement, and you watch as the attacker kills your brother because he spoke up....and you and your family are sitting there helpless in the basement, and I come in and kill the attacker, thus making you and your family free....afterwards you would get mad at me and call me a murderer?
http://www.mindspring.com/~mfpatton/Tissues.htm
Please reply with an answer to the question and the alternative question because discussing imaginary, obtuse, and silly situations is a great discourse. But, I will grant you an answer: yes, you will be a murderer.
The surprising fact about Republicans is that while the individual may be considered scholarly in an academic field, the Republican cannot logically deduce that they have the same mindset as terrorists: the philosophy of violent retaliation. The most disgusting characteristic of these fanatics, a characteristic that places them far below terrorists on the morality scale, is the imperialistic desires and personal greed that influence their politics. While terrorists may commit acts of violence in protest to injustice, for example US funding of the Israeli occupation, Republicans wage war, not just in retaliation of the World Trade Centre, but for corporate and religious interests. The Iraq war was not retribution for the annihilation of the skyscrapers, but purely an imperialistic conquest initiated by fanatics, funded by the greedy scum, and supported by the ignorant.
The narrow-minded nature of the Conservatives inhibits them from seeing consequences of their political agenda. The very nature of conservative politics will guarantee that while the world progresses toward liberalism, conservatives will only retard the inevitable. The future generations will regard present day Republicans with the same scorn as present day people regard the slave owners of the past. The grandchildren of Republicans will have to endure the pain of seeing their grandparents placed alongside Osama bin Ladin, George W. Bush, and Hitler as the great evils of the previous generation. Here's some advice. Please, tell us who you are quoting. You never do. And for unintelligent, lazy conservatives like myself it's frustrating having to keep going back through the various threads.
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justme: Wahabbi or whatever its face is called, isn't quoting anyone. Its pure nothing but NDP spew and slogans.
"The older the fiddle, the sweeter the music"~ Augustus McCrae
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Jeffrey....
While I haven't read those documents or manuals, my "counter" source would be the recent book "Imperial Hubris" by an anonymous CIA agent whose twenty year service for the agency involved a thorough investigation and research of Bin Laden and Al Queda. Possibly you know of the book itself since you're rather well read. Morever, I've referred elsewhere to this book.
The point he makes repeatedly in the book is that Bin Laden and Al Queda are in fact revulsed by Western culture in all its forms and would gloat at the prospect of the world converting to their brand of Islam but what they really are up in arms about(and in fact what has been the REAL motivating catalyst behind their attacks)is U.S. foreign policy in the Mid East.
They're not about to shed their blood over what they perceive as the decadent West. But over something like the stationing of military bases in Saudi Arabia, the collusion with the House of Saud, support for Israel, and most recently the attack of Iraq have really gotten them worked up more than anything else you could dream of.
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reblder: "They're not about to shed their blood over what they perceive as the decadent West"
That is exactly what they intend to shed blood over. I have cited my sources, not some government employee with a book contract, but the actual Al Qaida documents, going back over a decade. Is that book your only source? You need to read different points of view. Like travel, it broadens the mind. I have argued elsewhere that the Iraq war was a mistake and that what we will gain from it, will not outweigh the costs.
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Jeffery
reblder hasn't had time to read extensivly or travel, he has been busy making wedding plans, but now that the election has stopped his marriage maybe he will get the chance.
lb
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Posted by Jeffrey: That is exactly what they intend to shed blood over. I have cited my sources, not some government employee with a book contract, but the actual Al Qaida documents, going back over a decade. Is that book your only source? You need to read different points of view. Like travel, it broadens the mind. I have argued elsewhere that the Iraq war was a mistake and that what we will gain from it, will not outweigh the costs I'm rather surprised at you, Jeffrey. For a man who "prides" himself on how well read or informed he is based on statistics and wut knot, it's baffling why you'd be so quick to dismiss my source who has himself painstakingly for twenty years read all kinds of documents related to Al Queda and Bin Laden. He has also travelled to the area and I think this readily qualifies him as a long time pro at this whereas neither you nor I can hardly make that claim. Therefore I would trust his judgement on this far more than what any of perceptions are 'telling' you about OBL's intentions even they are written in these "documents" you cite. BTW, I'm awaiting your review of the book I recommended by the Columbia Prof.
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Originally posted by justme: Originally posted by yhabpo: [b] I bet you if someone had kidnapped you and your family, holding them hostage in your basement, and you watch as the attacker kills your brother because he spoke up....and you and your family are sitting there helpless in the basement, and I come in and kill the attacker, thus making you and your family free....afterwards you would get mad at me and call me a murderer? If we are going to argue silly hypothetical situations, I suggest we contemplate a more relevant question: http://www.mindspring.com/~mfpatton/Tissues.htm Please reply with an answer to the question and the alternative question because discussing imaginary, obtuse, and silly situations is a great discourse. But, I will grant you an answer: yes, you will be a murderer. The surprising fact about Republicans is that while the individual may be considered scholarly in an academic field, the Republican cannot logically deduce that they have the same mindset as terrorists: the philosophy of violent retaliation. The most disgusting characteristic of these fanatics, a characteristic that places them far below terrorists on the morality scale, is the imperialistic desires and personal greed that influence their politics. While terrorists may commit acts of violence in protest to injustice, for example US funding of the Israeli occupation, Republicans wage war, not just in retaliation of the World Trade Centre, but for corporate and religious interests. The Iraq war was not retribution for the annihilation of the skyscrapers, but purely an imperialistic conquest initiated by fanatics, funded by the greedy scum, and supported by the ignorant. The narrow-minded nature of the Conservatives inhibits them from seeing consequences of their political agenda. The very nature of conservative politics will guarantee that while the world progresses toward liberalism, conservatives will only retard the inevitable. The future generations will regard present day Republicans with the same scorn as present day people regard the slave owners of the past. The grandchildren of Republicans will have to endure the pain of seeing their grandparents placed alongside Osama bin Ladin, George W. Bush, and Hitler as the great evils of the previous generation. You're right. Sometimes I forget to press the "reply with quote" and instead, copy and paste.
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Originally posted by reblder:
"Imperial Hubris" by an anonymous CIA agent Imperial Hubris was written by Michael Scheuer.
"If we lose freedom here, there's no place to escape to." MSU - the university of Michigan! Wheels
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Originally posted by gryphon: Originally posted by reblder:
[b] "Imperial Hubris" by an anonymous CIA agent Outed! Damn. 
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Posted by Gryphon: Imperial Hubris was written by Michael Scheuer I know, I saw that recently somewhere so somehow his "anonymity" got leaked out and apparently not that big a deal to him either.
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somehow his "anonymity" got leaked out
Ooooooh, that happened to my sweet Taquisha once! She leaked anonymity all over the place! Right there in the middle of the supermarket!
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Originally posted by justme: 89th, you did ask for it!  You gotta answer. If not Nunatax wins by default! The harsh rules of debate...
Some can tell you to go to heck in such a manner that you would think you might actually enjoy the trip, but that is far more polite than civil - JBryan
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Originally posted by yhabpo: I bet you if someone had kidnapped you and your family, holding them hostage in your basement, and you watch as the attacker kills your brother because he spoke up....and you and your family are sitting there helpless in the basement, and I come in and kill the attacker, thus making you and your family free....afterwards you would get mad at me and call me a murderer? Thank you. Thank you for displaying your ignorance so clearly. The fact that you would have called me a murderer just after saving your life, makes you lose all credibility. Its like saying terrorists would rather fight Kerry, or that the sun is cold. Killing a terrorist and killing an innocent victim is the same thing: killing. Yes...BUT, since you cant seem to distiguish between the two, I dont know what else I can do to help you. If terrorists kill 3,000 Americans because of their hate of freedom and democracy, that is murder, obviously. But when we go and take out those terrorists, we are slowly eliminating violence from the world. But you obviously cant see that, since you equate someone who killed your brother and someone who killed the person who killed your brother, as having done the same murderous act. Stop reading the NY Times and live in reality. This is the danger of having those in power with similar ideological beliefs as you, yahababaoo. You wouldn't have taken on Hitler, or Saddam, or Osama...they would all still be running free as you clutch on to your copy of "Fahrenheit 9/11".
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Originally posted by Tom--K: Originally posted by justme: [b] 89th, you did ask for it! You gotta answer. If not Nunatax wins by default! Apparently, he doesn't have anything to slap me with...
Some can tell you to go to heck in such a manner that you would think you might actually enjoy the trip, but that is far more polite than civil - JBryan
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Jeez, Nunatax, give it a rest. If you read my last post in that thread, it very clearly summarizes my point of view and how we are just going in circles.
It's opinion vs. opinion...although I can go on forever debating homosexuality, trust me.
But after hundreds of posts on the topic, you know my point of view, and I know yours.
If you have some crazy evidence all of a sudden that shows the homosexuality is genetic, I'm all for it! But the only evidence people ever show are these articles talking about the psycho-analysis of animals.
Honestly. Furthermore, the debate isn't even about whether or not they are born that way...its about the selective discrimination of those who want to legalize homo marriage, but criminalize polygamous marriage, incestuous marriage, and other 'actions' that dont 'hurt' anyone.
If you want to get back on that pointless carousel, fine by me, but you will be riding alone.
If you magically come up with some facts showing a LEGITIMATE argument against my views, then you are more than welcome to start a new thread and show me. But I know there are no facts out there to refute my opinions, and visa versa.
Stop acting like a child and trying to drag me back into a debate, especially one where you ignore logic and facts, distract from the main debate, and one that you simply CANT WIN.
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