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Considering I just answered TomK's post, you're probably right.

let them know what you think


communications@ppfa.org


jf

At least they're being more honest about their agenda now.

I disagree.
The idea of the tshirt is a great one; wearing it may be hazardous to the wearer.
Society has a long way to go on the abortion subject.
But the tshirt it is a smart in you face confrontational idea.
Since when is honest and openness not a worthy goal?
And I think bring God into this is a cop out.

Am I allow to have an opinion and discuss this?
I am a man.
Do some women just write off anything a man says on abortion?

Kenny:

Of course you are allowed to have an opinion! But I do believe that this is one of those topics where a man's opinion is simply going to be differently formed than a woman's opinion. (Don't worry, I'm sure there are other things where women will never quite "get it," --check out my "why I like dogs" thread for an example).

I'm reminded of a line from the movie "Cactus Flower," where one character is talking about some sort of tacky thing in a movie and defending it because it's natural. "So is diarrhea, but I wouldn't want to have to watch it."

I agree with cindysphinx, abortion should be a private, thoughtful and last-resort option for women, not a political slogan on a t-shirt.

I know a lot of folks of my "ilk" will want to crucify me on this, but this is an area where I disagree with the Republicans.

As Cindy said earlier and I have posted words to this effect, "...a private, sensitive, personal matter to be sorted out between the woman, the people closest to her, her physician and her God, and it is no one else's business."

While it's certainly an emotional issue for many people and I respect that, I wish this wasn't the politically charged issue that it is.

I have the nails and a hammer at the ready, who's first.

I agree 100%, abortion should be private thoughtful last-resort.
I certainly didn't state or imply that a woman should be required to wear such a shirt.

But the tshirt is only a tshirt.
It does have a "Get Over It" quality that I appreciate.
I "get" the political statement of it.

It is kind of like an I'M GAY, Tshirt.
Something that was formerly - and many people would like to keep it - a deep dark secrtive and shameful thing.
Now it is like, Hey, So what, big deal!

That was my point.

And a flag is only a flag.

Funny how men will die for one....

Kenny, of course you can state your opinion! What's more, I respect and understand your opinion, and I appreciate your contribution to this discussion. I even think I understand what PP was trying to do -- reduce the tremendous stigma surrounding abortion by bringing it out of the closet.

I just think they're going about it the wrong way -- and it might not be possible to remove the stigma anyway. The way to remove the stigma is for individual women to tell their individual stories -- their own painful experiences in their own words, not some mass-produced slogan. Once abortion has a face, perhaps some of the more hardened opinions about it will soften. I dunno.

Though I am pro-choice, I'm not pro-abortion. In other words, I think there should be considerable informal societal pressure to encourage women to explore other options for problem pregnancies. But if they decide abortion is the route they wish to take (partly because we as a society have allowed the alternatives to abortion to be pretty unpalatable), I think we then have to back off and allow reasonable access to safe abortions.

As for the God thing, if a woman does not recognize a God (or other diety), then she shouldn't factor one into her decision, of course. Goes without saying, really.

So. If someone wants to wear a T-shirt announcing their gynecological history, they can. I will wrinkle my nose as they walk past, though.

OK, this is a good point, so I hope you all don't mind if I address it . . .

Actually, I don't think much of an "I'm Gay!" T-shirt as a way of diminishing stigma, either.

See, the thing that won me over on gay rights and removed the stigma for me was knowing gay people and hearing what their lives were like and learning their personal experiences. It wasn't some slogan. So yes, being gay used to carry a pretty nasty stigma almost everywhere in the U.S., and that has changed dramatically.

I just don't think it was the T-shirts that did it.

"Get over it" and "Hey, So What, big deal!" They're lives that are being taken. It's a very big deal. My bet is that those statements even make pro-choice advocates shudder (whether they'd admit it or not).

Kenny you sound like you're really seeking attention or something. I can live with opposing view points but you seem a bit too over the top. Good grief...do you honestly think that women that have their living festuses ripped out of their bodies would even say "big deal!"?? I honestly pray not!

thank you for your opinion MShattuck.. perfect.

Abortion is legal.
I didn't make it legal.
Don't jump down my throat.

This is a Tshirt.

Actually . . . just know that not everyone believes that aborting a non-viable fetus takes a life. I don't.

I think abortion is a big deal for another reason. As someone said, the fetus is a developing life. Or a potential life. Or a would-be life. So I would imagine that terminating a fetus would be excruciating painfully from a psychological perspective -- I'd always wonder what might have been.

Like other major life decision (whom to marry, for instance), the decision to abort or not to abort has huge consequences. And that makes it a big deal, IMHO. But if my daughter came to me with a first term pregnancy and said she wished to abort, we'd talk about it so she'd understand what she was doing. But my goal wouldn't be to talk her out of it, necessarily.

My point, generally speaking, is to say that from most any rationale opinion it is not something so trifle as to say "big deal" or "get over it". For me it is a big deal b/c of life implications...for others b/c of psychological implications...etc etc. I've met many in my life that have varying opinions but not so brash as to say those things.

Sheesh, I don't think it was the T-shirts either.
Did I say that?

Bumper stickers and T-shirts are a moment to make a point, like "Kill Your Television."
Nobody takes it literally.
Somebody is trying to make some point.
They think of a catchy phrase.
They print it.
People react.
It is intended to push your buttons.
It pushes the issue, fans the flames, accelerates the process.
If the country decides to change the law, so be it.
The people have spoken.
Then we get a new T-shirt.

What I have a problem with is when something just is, but everyone hides it and pretends it is not so.
Abortion is legal, it happens.
I am not saying it is good or fun or to be taken lightly.
When I say get over it - I am talking about something that *IS* legal.
If it becomes illegal, another group needs to accept or change the law.
I am talking about what is legal.

Not to pick nits or anything, but my post to which Kenny replied didn't contain the word "Sheesh." I don't know how that happened. Weird.

Anyway, I do understand your point, Kenny, really. Like I said, your raising the gay T-shirt thing is a compelling argument, IMHO.

Agree to disagree on this one?

Sorry Cindy
I added the Sheesh to your part by accident, I fixed it.

Not sure what your question for me is on the gay T-shirt.

I don't think even the most conservative on this forum would find the "I'm Gay" t-shirt in the same offensive stratosphere as the "I had an abortion" t-shirt. Jolly, correct me if I'm wrong.

Derick