Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Digital Pianos - Electronic Pianos - Synths & Keyboards Something nearly ALL digital pianos get wrong.

I've spoken to techs at Kawai and Yamaha about this, and while they're equally surprised, they don't seem to care much.

On a real piano, you can get a sostenuto effect without the sostenuto pedal. And on a select few digital pianos, you can accomplish this. It works like this:

Depress the sustain pedal and strike a note or chord. Lift off the keys but hold the sustain pedal. The notes will sustain, of course, and all digital pianos get this right. Now, while still depressing the sustain pedal, depress the same keys but slowly enough so that no new notes are sounded. While holding down the notes, take your foot off the sustain pedal.

On a real piano the notes still sustain, minus the sympathetic resonance of the other strings which are now dampened. But on most digital pianos, the notes are cut off as soon as you lift off the sustain pedal. A few digital pianos get it right, including my ol' faithful Yamaha P80, the P120, and the PF1000. It amazes and disappoints me that even some of the most expensive and elaborate flagship digital pianos fail this simple mechanism.

Now, you might ask, "What's the point? Just use the sostenuto pedal!" Well, mine doesn't have one, and I don't feel like spending money on a keyboard that has all sorts of bells and whistles I don't need, and that still fails on this feature. Plus, this technique is more flexible than using the sostenuto pedal. (Though I do wish my P80 had a sostenuto function, because I could use that as well! )

Try it on yours and let me know what happens!

Yeah, that is pretty interesting. The note does not sustain on my Roland fp-7 either. But, I do have a sostenuto pedal jack if required.


My FP-7 is simply remembering the last bit of "volume" information for the key I pressed though. When I press loud, then soft then release the sustain the loud note loses sustain while the newer "lower" volume continues on sustaining. The piano basically has no concept of dampers on a particular key.

I'll post an example of how I think my Roland FP-7 is generating the sound internally:


sustain=true
C1.pressed = true
C1.velocity = 127 #first hit
C1.pressed = false #It could be from here that the sustaining is passed off to another part of the DP's programming.
C1.pressed = true
C1.velocity = 1 #second hit
sustain=false

The C1 note now sustains using the last known velocity, which obviously is quite silent.

From what my piano does this is pretty much how I imagine that it is "thinking".

For all I now this may be due to processing limitations in the piano or maybe even due to the way the pianos try to handle limited polyphony available. I really have no idea how the digital pianos are programmed something like the above scenario fits results that I get from my piano.

I noticed that too on my Kawai CA51.

Score one for my GEM RP800 - the note sustains after the pedal is released.

But given that this technique requires skill and timing, both of which I lack, I'll just use the sostenuto pedal.

jscomposer, i am happy to announce that my YAMAHA CLP-240 does it right:
The notes still sustain in this test!

So i suppose the whole CLP-2xx and CLP-3xx series have it right to.

I am curious about the ROLAND HP-20x series.

Can somebody do a test?

my HP-203 failed the test.

So did Galaxy II Steinway so far, though I haven't fiddled with all options yet.

Thanks for the replies, keep 'em comin'!

Yeah, I've never played a Roland or Kawai that got this right. But a number of Yamahas get it. A few Casios get it too. LOL It's kinda strange which Yamahas get it and which ones don't. Like the P80, P120, P140 get it, but the P250 didn't get it (at least the ones I've tried).

I'm a little surprised the GEM RP800 got it! I tried one of their Promegas and it failed this test. I also tried one of their cabinet pianos, it was either an RP700 or RP800, I wish I could remember which. But it didn't get this right. So that's interesting that yours does. I'll have to find a dealer and test them out again. I really like their sounds.

Anyone here have a GEM pRP700 or pRP800 they could try this on? Those are the models I'm most interested in, and I hear that they have a different action than their cabinet counterparts. So there may be hope!

Although, I wonder if it has anything to do with settings. Hey curious14, what are the settings on your RP800?

my yamaha CP300 failed the test haha. I guess that part isn't modified since the CP250.

I enjoyed your writing and playing on both pieces Joshua.

Casio AP-45 passed.

Does this test apply to models like this that do have sostenuto?

My CLP330 failed. Which seems kinda odd if the 240 got it right. Not that it matters much to me though, will never have any use for it

My Yamaha s90es failed the test with the default set-up.

I am wonder if some deep editing will correct this.
When I have time I will ask Yamaha tech support.

Thanks!
Sure. A DP that has a sostenuto pedal AND can get this mechanism right is ideal!

Very strange indeed!

I did the test again several times with my CLP-240 and it's perfect: the notes of the chord sustain as long as they should do if the sustain pedal was pressed.

And if i slowly press 1 note of the chord again (also without making a new sound of course) that note only sustains like it should do with the sustain pedal.

It works also perfectly with the middle pedal or "sostenuto" pedal.

Why should Yamaha has changed that? Or maybe something has changed in the CLP-3xx software?

Any one with a CLP-340/370/380 and also a 270/280 ?

I was told that soft-piano pianoteq passed it...

My CLP-270 failed the test! I will go to the store and try the 240 if they still have one.

:p

Update: Yamaha tech says that DP's with sympathetic resonance will not get this mechanism right. But earlier DP's without sympathetic resonance will get it right. (Not that they shouldn't be able to get it right with sympathetic resonance. Or one would think. :rolleyes: )

My Yamaha P80 doesn't have sympathetic resonance and it passes this test, so that's a check. Can you guys verify this on yours? And what about the other makes we've covered, like Casio, Kawai, etc.?

(To test sympathetic resonance, press down a chord slowly enough not to produce any sound. While still holding it, play any other note staccato. The notes you're holding down will generate a faint sound if your DP has sympathetic resonance. If all you hear is the staccato note, then your DP doesn't have sympathetic resonance.)

Well, my clp-340... passed the test

I guess that makes sense since I just tested my CP300 again and it has sympathetic resonance and it doesn't have that sostenuto thing right.

Yeah, the FP-7 also does sympathetic resonance as well as fails the test.