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 Want an engineer to make a 49-key weighted action digital keyboard
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 34
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OP
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 34 |
I travel (fly) a lot for my work and need to take a keyboard with me for practise when I stay in hotels in African cities where there are no pianos. I have a Yamaha P-80 which is about 60" x 13" x 5", which fits in a specially made case by FlyteCase in Canada. The P80 weighs 16.4 kg (about 40 pounds); with the case it's 27 kg. The tactile impression is good (the best approximation to the grand action) and the sound, with headphones, is accurate and bearable, if not pleasurable. The problem is that not all airlines allow a case this large or heavy, it attracts undue attention from rent-seeking customs officials, and doesn't fit into the average taxi. So I'd like a 49- or 61-key (4-5 octave) weighted action keyboard which would weigh less, take less space and permit me to fly anywhere. At least I'd be able to play Bach that way, and practise scales. But on the market I find that the only weighted action keyboards are 88-key. The 49- and 61-key keyboards are at best pressure-sensitive or velocity-sensitive (viz. do gradations of volume) but, even when they claim to be “semi-weighted” or “synth action”, do not have a hammer action at all. The tactile impression is so far from the grand action that besides being unpleasant it would, I suspect, also waste time in that once back home I'd have to "unlearn" the motions acquired and "relearn" them on my acoustic piano. I have written to all the big manufacturers (Baldwin, Bohemia, Casio, Clavia, FATAR, Generalmusic (GEM), Korg, Kawai, Kurzweil, Samick, Suzuki, Roland, Technics, Viscount and WERSI) and spoken with some, but have had only negative responses. It is clear that there are many people out there with the same problem – see the following indications on this and other sites: http://www.pianoworld.com/ubb/ubb/ultimatebb.php?/topic/6/226.html#000004 http://www.pianoworld.com/ubb/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?/topic/1/4221.html http://www.pianoforum.net/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=inst;action=display;num=1084276337 http://www.pianoforum.net/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=inst;action=displa y;num=1079199900;start=0 http://www.pianoforum.net/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=inst;action=displa y;num=1060003862;start=0 http://www.pianoforum.net/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=inst;action=display;num=1080218682 So I'm now searching for an engineer who would be interested in taking apart an instrument with weighted action (e.g. Yamaha P80) and converting it into a 49-key instrument. This might entail using one of the 49-key synths on the market (e.g. Fatar's) and installing Yamaha's keys. Obviously the warranties would be voided but that's not a problem to me. Or maybe there's an engineer out there who has another innovative solution? Or can anyone suggest to me the name of an engineer who might be interested in trying this?
Peter_Godowsky
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 Re: Want an engineer to make a 49-key weighted action digital keyboard
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 11,678
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
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There is a need for this, although 49 keys is pretty small. Have you taken apart your P80 and looked inside? I'm curious, myself.
"If we lose freedom here, there's no place to escape to." MSU - the university of Michigan! Wheels
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 Re: Want an engineer to make a 49-key weighted action digital keyboard
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,838
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Yup ..... i've mentioned this on this forum too ..... What I'd really like is a fold up (like a book) 88 key weighed portable keyboard for travelling, but a slightly smaller keyboard would do too. Why can't someone just invent this?
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 Re: Want an engineer to make a 49-key weighted action digital keyboard
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 11,678
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
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Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 11,678 |
Peter, to address your comments about my "Travel piano" thread in the PF, I couldn't find anything small enough, so what I ended up doing is purchasing a P90. It's pretty big as you know so instead of flying to St. Louis (where I have to spend a month this summer) I am going to drive so I can take the piano. I know this doesn't do you any good since you can't drive to Africa.  Your idea of modifying a P80 is intriguing. As I asked earlier, have you taken your P80 apart to see inside?
"If we lose freedom here, there's no place to escape to." MSU - the university of Michigan! Wheels
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 Re: Want an engineer to make a 49-key weighted action digital keyboard
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Joined: May 2001
Posts: 9,217
9000 Post Club Member
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9000 Post Club Member
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The minute you add the word "weighted" to the equation, portability is out the window. It isn't a matter of engineering, it's a matter of mass. The unit simply ends up weighing too much to be called portable.
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 Re: Want an engineer to make a 49-key weighted action digital keyboard
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 34
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OP
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Joined: May 2004
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On another site someone suggested the Doepfer SK2000. It's 88 keys but because the case is built in, the total weight is 20 kgs and hence it's smaller than the case for a standard Yamaha P90 or whatever. See the discussion at:
http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=18;t=010483
This is a partial solution. The Doepfer has specs:
20 kgs, 134.2 cm x 26.5 cm x 10.5 cm or: 44 lbs, 52.8 in x 10.4 in x 4.1 in.
Whereas my present setup, a Yamaha P80 with a custom-built case by FlyteCase, has:
16.4 + 13.1 = 29.5 kg, 139 cm x 33 cm x 16.5 cm or: 36 + 29 = 65lbs, 54.8 in x 13 in x 6.5 in.
The Doepfer has an advantage over the P90 in that it has both a sustain and a soft pedal. It has both MIDI out and a headphone jack. I wish I'd known of this (partial) solution earlier.
Peter_Godowsky
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 Re: Want an engineer to make a 49-key weighted action digital keyboard
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 34
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My 53-key short-scale Yamaha P-80 weighted-action keyboard arrived last week, in perfect condition. It looks and feels like the Yamaha P-80, just that it is shorter. The length was shortened from 53 inches to 33 1/2 inches. The range is now C (2 octaves below middle C) to e''' (two octaves and a third above middle C). All the controls work exactly as in the original instrument. I'm able to play all my Bach and Handel pieces, many of my Mozart and Haydn pieces, and even Faure's Prelude 8 op. 103. It "feels" a lot lighter and more manipulable: it is now about 23 1/2 pounds, down from the previous 37 pounds. I wonder if this is worth an entry in the Guinness Book of Records? I'm very grateful to Myk Goldey of Allied Electronics in Dallas, who managed the whole process. The contacts of the firm are 1-800-466-2372 or 214-349-5000, 10870 Plano Road, Suite C, Dallas TX 75243, and the web site is www.audioelectronics.com. Next is to get a suitable flight case and then I'll be set. Best wishes, Peter
Peter_Godowsky
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 Re: Want an engineer to make a 49-key weighted action digital keyboard
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 770
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Hi Peter, Can you tell us how much it cost, for the piano and the modification?
How does it look, did they make a new case for it? Can you post pictures? Thanks, appreciate the information.
Dan
The piano is my drug of choice. Why are you reading this? Go play the piano! Why am I writing this? ARGGG!
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 Re: Want an engineer to make a 49-key weighted action digital keyboard
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 11,678
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
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Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 11,678 |
Cool! Good news, can you post pics?
"If we lose freedom here, there's no place to escape to." MSU - the university of Michigan! Wheels
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 Re: Want an engineer to make a 49-key weighted action digital keyboard
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 2,278
2000 Post Club Member
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2000 Post Club Member
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I would love to see a photo of that. How much did a job like that cost? I would like a chop down to 76 keys.
Jazz piano Instructor. Technical Editor for Mark Levine's "The Jazz Theory Book". Studied with Mark Levine, Art Lande & Mark Isham (1981-1990). Also: Barry Harris and Monty Alexander (1993-present)
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 Re: Want an engineer to make a 49-key weighted action digital keyboard
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 34
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Dear Ritincop, Dan M. and Gryphon, Here are two pictures. Regards, Peter
Peter_Godowsky
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 Re: Want an engineer to make a 49-key weighted action digital keyboard
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Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,751
3000 Post Club Member
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3000 Post Club Member
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Too Cool for School!!!
Really nice.
K
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 Re: Want an engineer to make a 49-key weighted action digital keyboard
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 2,278
2000 Post Club Member
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2000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 2,278 |
Thanks, that is great! May I ask how much that chop down job cost? How many hours did it take? Besides cutting did they have to relocate internal components and rewire it?
Jazz piano Instructor. Technical Editor for Mark Levine's "The Jazz Theory Book". Studied with Mark Levine, Art Lande & Mark Isham (1981-1990). Also: Barry Harris and Monty Alexander (1993-present)
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 Re: Want an engineer to make a 49-key weighted action digital keyboard
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Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,751
3000 Post Club Member
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3000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,751 |
just thinking...if one could get two of them - might be able to reproduce one of those big bosie's with the extra keys...Hm...
K
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 Re: Want an engineer to make a 49-key weighted action digital keyboard
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 34
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Joined: May 2004
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Originally posted by rintincop: Thanks, that is great! May I ask how much that chop down job cost? How many hours did it take? Besides cutting did they have to relocate internal components and rewire it? Dear Ritincop, They took about 3 months, but were apparently not actually working on it during most of that time. I was in no hurry, so I didn't mind. If I recall they said that engineering work cost $70/hour and non-engineering work cost some $50/hour, and possibly the spread was half-half. From that you could figure out the number of hours. Regards, Peter
Peter_Godowsky
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 Re: Want an engineer to make a 49-key weighted action digital keyboard
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 161
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So you don't like M-audio's 49-key variant?
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 Re: Want an engineer to make a 49-key weighted action digital keyboard
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Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 8,483
8000 Post Club Member
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8000 Post Club Member
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it looks cool, and much smaller!
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 Re: Want an engineer to make a 49-key weighted action digital keyboard
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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 274
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This is so cool! I have a P80 sitting at home in the Philippines that I'm going to take the sawsall to next time I get home. Totally rad, dude! No more freakouts from the customs sharks! Craig 
NY Steinway A 2005; Roland FP-7F/ FP-4
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 Re: Want an engineer to make a 49-key weighted action digital keyboard
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 4,534
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But this cost something like 5000.00 to 10,000.00? I personally am skeptical of value of such an item at this price. I have been playing for many yrs. now, but during that time I've had many long periods (20 yrs., 5 yrs., 3 yrs., 1 yr., etc.) when I gave up playing and thought I would never play again. But each time that I restarted I found that I could quickly get back into it and, what's more, that my playing had actually improved. Thus, I personally see no problem with not playing for a time, be it a few days, a few weeks, a few months, or a few years. Each time you restart you should find that the absence has actually be beneficial and the you've gained from it.
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 Re: Want an engineer to make a 49-key weighted action digital keyboard
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Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,285
1000 Post Club Member
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1000 Post Club Member
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The dude obviously has some serious ca$h to burn...
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