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#689758 - 03/09/05 01:32 AM What headphones do you use?  
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dezafinado Offline
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My open-back AKG K-280 Parabolic HP are 15 yrs old. They work fine but I'm curious and wanna get another set. So far I'm leaning towards the K-240 Studio or AKG K-501.

K-240 Studio (55 ohms / 91 dB)
[Linked Image]


K-501 (120 ohms / 94 db)
[Linked Image]

Just curious as to what headphones you use with your digi piano.

Niki


I'm turnin' tricks, I'm gettin' fixed, I'm back on Boogie Street...
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#689759 - 03/09/05 04:30 AM Re: What headphones do you use?  
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Good choice. I'm myself a very satisfied user of AKG K240. I changed last year to the Studio model. They are very comfortable and the sound is dynamic and powerful.

By the way, the customer support in Austria is extremely helpful if you would ever need to speak to them. Even after the warranty expires they will do their best to help you.

#689760 - 03/09/05 04:49 AM Re: What headphones do you use?  
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May I tag on here?

Has anyone found any wireless headsets to be of very good sound quality and comfortable for long sessions?


Phil
#689761 - 03/09/05 05:02 AM Re: What headphones do you use?  
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Sony MDR7506


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#689762 - 03/09/05 06:08 AM Re: What headphones do you use?  
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I also use the AKG-240S. I tried the AGKs and a pair of sony mdr7506's and found the sonys to be kind of bright and harsh. The AKGs sounded much more realistic, not so intense. I sort of wanted to get the sonys because they don't look so ridiculous, but despite them making me look like some kind of alien the I bought the AKGs for the sound quality.

In reading up on some headphone newsgroups I found some said that the sonys were good for pop/rock music and were "hyped" in certain frequencies which make that kind of music sound better.

#689763 - 03/09/05 06:34 AM Re: What headphones do you use?  
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Great timing, because I was planning to post a similar thread, looking for headphones myself.

What's the going price for the AKG-240 studio? and who carries them in North America?

Thanks
Marek

#689764 - 03/09/05 06:38 AM Re: What headphones do you use?  
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Yamaha RH5MA


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#689765 - 03/09/05 06:42 AM Re: What headphones do you use?  
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Sennheiser HD600. They're outstanding, and very comfortable.


David


"After silence, that which comes nearest to expressing the inexpressible is music." - Aldous Huxley
#689766 - 03/09/05 07:21 AM Re: What headphones do you use?  
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Sennheiser HD280Pro, which has relatively wider sound range but is little too tight to wear at the beginning (getting little loose now).

#689767 - 03/09/05 08:27 AM Re: What headphones do you use?  
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In the US, sweetwater.com has a good selection of headphones including the ones mentioned so far from Sony, AKG and Sennheiser.

And yes, the Sony are a bit hyped on the top. But considering they're used frequently in recording studios (with rhythm sections, etc.), that top-end helps provide definition for the performer. I've used the AKG a gazillion times and the Sennheisers as well. They'll all work very well for this application.

I should also mention that more and more I find myself using my Shure E5 in-ear monitors that I use on stage. They sound pretty good with the right ear-piece.


PianoWorld disclaimer: musician, producer, arranger, author, clinician, consultant, PS2 aficionado, secret agent...
#689768 - 03/09/05 11:59 AM Re: What headphones do you use?  
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Quote
Originally posted by fojae:
I sort of wanted to get the sonys because they don't look so ridiculous, but despite them making me look like some kind of alien I bought the AKGs for the sound quality.
Alien? The K-501 makes a person look like the ultimate supergeek! laugh

Quote
Originally posted by mxs:
What's the going price for the AKG-240 studio? and who carries them in North America?

Thanks
Marek
K-240 should run about $100 - $129. Try Google. A lot of online vendors carry them. Headroom is a bit on the expensive side but they have a 30-day return policy should you change your mind...

http://www.headphone.com/layout.php?topicID=1


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#689769 - 03/09/05 12:19 PM Re: What headphones do you use?  
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Quote
Originally posted by jazzyd:
Sennheiser HD600. They're outstanding, and very comfortable. David
David - Senn HD600 are rated at 300 ohms (impedance). Your keyboard's phone jack has no problem driving them? Or do you use a dedicated headphone Amp?

Niki


I'm turnin' tricks, I'm gettin' fixed, I'm back on Boogie Street...
#689770 - 03/09/05 02:46 PM Re: What headphones do you use?  
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Anyone know what the impedance of the headphone outputs are on a Yamaha CVP309GP?

#689771 - 03/09/05 02:57 PM Re: What headphones do you use?  
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Quote
Originally posted by dezafinado:
Quote
Originally posted by jazzyd:
[b] Sennheiser HD600. They're outstanding, and very comfortable. David
David - Senn HD600 are rated at 300 ohms (impedance). Your keyboard's phone jack has no problem driving them? Or do you use a dedicated headphone Amp?

Niki [/b]
I do use a headphone amp, and it's certainly better to do so. However, I have driven them from the outputs of pianos, hifis, portable CD players etc. without any problem.


David


"After silence, that which comes nearest to expressing the inexpressible is music." - Aldous Huxley
#689772 - 03/09/05 09:16 PM Re: What headphones do you use?  
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Sennheiser HD650 with dedicated headphone amp.
This will get the BEST sound out of any digital piano. Do yourself a favour and try it laugh

#689773 - 03/09/05 09:20 PM Re: What headphones do you use?  
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If you don't mind, what Amp do you use to drive your HD650?

I heard the K-501 can be needy so I may purchase a Head Amp eventually.

Thanks...


I'm turnin' tricks, I'm gettin' fixed, I'm back on Boogie Street...
#689774 - 03/10/05 04:13 AM Re: What headphones do you use?  
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I use the PPA headphone amp (I'm a DIY electronics freak)
Read more about it here;
http://www.tangentsoft.net/audio/ppa/
also if you don't want to build one yourself you can often find them for sale here;
www.headfi.com - look under the amps section.
Cheers
Bubba

#689775 - 03/10/05 06:30 AM Re: What headphones do you use?  
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I am not a headphones expert, so what kind of parameters one has to watch when buying? I will use them for my digi piano application.

Can I actually buy decent headphones in 100 USD range?

Thanks

#689776 - 03/10/05 06:38 AM Re: What headphones do you use?  
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My AKG240S cost $100 USD and they sound very good. I went to guitar center where they had the same piano that I have and asked to try different headphones with my piano. After going back and forth a few times the choice was obvious.

If you are interested in the AKG, make sure you get the "S" model not the "M" (your piano will most likely not be able to drive the "M" series).

Quote
Originally posted by mxs:
I am not a headphones expert, so what kind of parameters one has to watch when buying? I will use them for my digi piano application.

Can I actually buy decent headphones in 100 USD range?

Thanks

#689777 - 03/10/05 06:38 AM Re: What headphones do you use?  
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MXS;
I would highly reccomend the Sennheiser HD590, only slightly higher than $100. Check ebay. They have a fairly low impedance which means that you won't need a dedicated headphone amplifier to make them really sing. I have owned these before and was extremely impressed. Also they are possibly the most comfortable headphones ever made.

Bubba

#689778 - 03/10/05 10:14 AM Re: What headphones do you use?  
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Thanks guys for the advice. Can you check the link below and tell me how would these compare?

http://www.sennheiser.ca/en/Action.Lasso?-database=products_en&-layout=Layout1&-response=%2fen%2fdisplay.lasso&-recordID=33753&-search

Sennheiser HD590 is anywhere between 150 USD to 200 USD depending whether e-bay or normal store. That's more than I am willing to spend, that's why I am looking into something cheaper.

Thanks

#689779 - 03/10/05 05:20 PM Re: What headphones do you use?  
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mxs -

Both Senn and AKG are excellent manufacturers. You need to test them in person and decide which you prefer. Senns are generally more expensive than AKGs and they have different phones for different applications. Just remember to watch out for the impedance (ohms) and SPL ratings. If you don't have a dedicated HP Amplifier, it's best to stay below 120 ohms. SPL measures efficiency. The higher the SPL at XX ohms and YY volume level, the more efficient (louder) the phones.

PS: If you're looking for a set under $100, I think the AKG K-240S (Studio) is excellent. Second would be Senn HD-280 Pro (closed-back). Between these my choice would be the K-240S based on the Frequency Response graph (below). The HD-280 Pro rolls off too quickly below 200 Hz.

[img]http://graphs.headphone.com/graphCompare.php?graphType=0&graphID[]=213&graphID[]=423[/img]

Niki


I'm turnin' tricks, I'm gettin' fixed, I'm back on Boogie Street...
#689780 - 03/10/05 05:40 PM Re: What headphones do you use?  
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Quote
Originally posted by bubbamc119:
I use the PPA headphone amp (I'm a DIY electronics freak) Read more about it here;
http://www.tangentsoft.net/audio/ppa/
also if you don't want to build one yourself you can often find them for sale here;
www.headfi.com - look under the amps section.
Cheers
Bubba
Looks like fun. I like that it has NiMH rechargeable batteries. My Braun shaver has them too. 1-hr charge lasts 3 weeks!!!

Although I can tear down an engine and rebuild it, the last time I soldered a loose connection on my 25-yr old Rollei 35S (camera), most of the plastic battery compartment melted. The camera works great but the battery compartment is pretty ugly!!! :b:


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#689781 - 03/11/05 10:39 AM Re: What headphones do you use?  
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dezafinado:

Thanks for the quick lesson, it's been very helpful. I have one more question and it's regarding whether to go fully sealed like HD280 or semi-open (or whatever is the right term). Is the only factor whether I have a need to seal off around me noises, or is there any other factor I need to look at before making decision?

My piano is in the same room with TV and sometimes I guess a lot of times I might be bothered by it, so my conclusion would be to go fully sealed like HD280 right?

Thanks again.

#689782 - 03/11/05 12:06 PM Re: What headphones do you use?  
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Quote
Originally posted by mxs:
dezafinado:

Thanks for the quick lesson, it's been very helpful. I have one more question and it's regarding whether to go fully sealed like HD280 or semi-open (or whatever is the right term). Is the only factor whether I have a need to seal off around me noises, or is there any other factor I need to look at before making decision?

My piano is in the same room with TV and sometimes I guess a lot of times I might be bothered by it, so my conclusion would be to go fully sealed like HD280 right?

Thanks again.
If you need to isolate your ears from the environment, sealed headphones is the way to go. I own a pair of each and have always prefered the open type. It doesn't get hot under the cushions and they "generally" sound better... more airy. I think all of Sennheiser's top cans are open. A good closed, low impedance set is the AKG K-271 Studio, priced at ~$150.

http://www.akg.com/products/powerslave,mynodeid,186,id,250,pid,250,_language,EN.html

Niki


I'm turnin' tricks, I'm gettin' fixed, I'm back on Boogie Street...
#689783 - 03/11/05 12:07 PM Re: What headphones do you use?  
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DRD - I have a pair of Koss Pro/4AA headphones, 350 ohms/channel, they work fine with my Yamaha PF500 digital piano.


Dale the Whale
#689784 - 03/11/05 01:03 PM Re: What headphones do you use?  
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Hmmm... I thought they're rated at 250 ohms?

Nevertheless, that means the HP impedance on the PF500 must be low. Good to know. Thanks!


I'm turnin' tricks, I'm gettin' fixed, I'm back on Boogie Street...
#689785 - 03/13/05 10:28 AM Re: What headphones do you use?  
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Does that mean, that the lower the impedance on the piano headphones input the higher the impedance can be on the headphones?

Now, I just checked manual for my Roland HPi5 and asomehow they left this parameter out?

#689786 - 03/14/05 10:25 AM Re: What headphones do you use?  
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Quote
Originally posted by mxs:
Does that mean, that the lower the impedance on the piano headphones input the higher the impedance can be on the headphones?

Now, I just checked manual for my Roland HPi5 and asomehow they left this parameter out?
Yes, lower impedance at the HP jack is better but output power is also important info.

My Yam PF500 manual doesn't have the specs either. I'm waiting for a response from Yamaha.


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#689787 - 03/14/05 12:11 PM Re: What headphones do you use?  
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Dezafinado, the Pro 4AA is indeed 250 ohms/channel, that was a typo. Headphone outputs on amplifiers usually use a series resistance of a few hundred ohms to prevent blowing out low impedance phones, but an exact impedance match isn't very important because of the low power transfer involved. If you're really concerned, you'll probably feel more comfortable using a headphone amp, which has a relatively high impedance input, so that the main amp's headphone series resistance won't be a factor.


Dale the Whale
#689788 - 03/15/05 01:02 AM Re: What headphones do you use?  
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DAMeyn - So the PF500 doesn't use an OpAmp like most receivers and pre-amps? I hear a click (like a relay) when the headphone plug is inserted. Is this a switch redirecting the amplifier's output from the speakers to the resistors, leading to the HP jack?


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#689789 - 03/16/05 08:01 AM Re: What headphones do you use?  
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Dezafinado: I haven't investigated that possibility, don't hear any clicks. The speakers being disconnected when the phones are plugged in might generate a click, if a relay is involved. By the way, the option of whether to have the speakers shut off when plugging in the phones is software-selectable, look at the "other setttings" menu. Not all systems use a separate sub-amp for the headphones, some just tee off the amplifier main speaker output via a 250 ohm resistor (for example) for headphones. It's not possible to measure the output resistance at the headphone jacks with an ohmeter, because there is a capacitor in the circuit to block DC current from the final power amp. Yamaha and other digipiano makers should include more tech data (listen up, dealers & techs), and at least make it and a set of schematics available on special order. My old Hammond had a complete set of schematics, which enabled me to do a lot of my own trouble shooting and repairs, and make mods as I chose. They were pretty complicated, that was before the days of large scale integrated circuits. Modern instruments should have simpler ones.


Dale the Whale
#689790 - 03/16/05 02:44 PM Re: What headphones do you use?  
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The schematics of Yamaha is part of the service manual. You can get it by calling their parts line @ 1-800-854-1569, press 1 then 1 again. The manual is pretty detailed with lots of information, down to every nuts, bolts, chips, resistors, even stickers. Very good reading material if you're technically inclined and like to tinker.

The output impedence of most amplifiers can't be measured by an ohm meter, but can be measured by having the amplifier output a constant signal (e.g., 1 kHz sine wave). Attach several dummy loads, and extrapolate the impedence from the voltage across the load. Note the resistance of the load needed for a meaningful measurement can be so low it might overload the amplifier.

Don't know about PF500 specifically, but on a similar model they use power op-amp to drive the headphone output. There's a 33 Ohms series resistor between the op-amp and the jack. Since negative feedback is used the op-amp's output impedence is practically zero. Therefore the 33 Ohms become the only effective impedence.

#689791 - 03/16/05 03:42 PM Re: What headphones do you use?  
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Quote
Originally posted by FUNNYDOGNV:
Don't know about PF500 specifically, but on a similar model they use power op-amp to drive the headphone output. There's a 33 Ohms series resistor between the op-amp and the jack. Since negative feedback is used the op-amp's output impedence is practically zero. Therefore the 33 Ohms become the only effective impedence.
Would the "similar model" be the P250?


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#689792 - 03/17/05 08:37 AM Re: What headphones do you use?  
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CLP170. But I think it's quite similar to CLP150 an P250. I doublt Yamaha would re-invent the wheel each time for something as peripheral as headphone amps. But the surest way is getting the specific schematics for the specific model.

#689793 - 03/18/05 05:45 AM Re: What headphones do you use?  
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Headphones ... what is the standard against which the specifications are derived? The 'standard head' -- so to speak.

For example, if you just run an audio sweep by applying a standard audio power level at the input to the headphone connector, it says nothing about the acoustic coupling between the headphone speaker, and the the microphone that is used as a transducer to arrive at the specification data.

That means that you might have an artifact from the acoustic coupling that is not truly indicative of the headphone response. If there were a standard test response curve from the standard head, then at least a relative comparison could be made. Brightness, bass response, position sensation, etc. are parameters that are not easy to measure, somewhat subjective, and difficult to compare.

A good standard "head" would be very useful for this.

#689794 - 03/18/05 12:12 PM Re: What headphones do you use?  
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When you use the headphone, do you hear the echo at all? I am using a Sony MDR7056. If I play one note at a time, when the sound faded away, I hear another echo sound with the same tone as the note I play. Any of you experience this? I am using the Roland FP3.

It's fine to use the headphone when I play the whole song but if I just play one note at a time then the Echo kinda bother me.

Thanks.
Trihai

#689795 - 03/18/05 01:28 PM Re: What headphones do you use?  
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When you use headphones, everything in the sample (recording) is close-up so it's more enhanced. Try adjusting the Reverb and soundboard level. With my PF500, different settings for Reverb, Soundboard and harmonic content are used for phones and without them. I tend to lower all these attributes when I play with headphones.


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#689796 - 03/18/05 04:14 PM Re: What headphones do you use?  
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I turned the reverb off and the echo sound's still there. The echo sound is not that loud but I can hear it every time I play a single note. For example, if I play middle C, I will hear the sound "CCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCC" and then I will hear something echo "izzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz". Is that normal?

Thanks.

Trihai

#689797 - 03/18/05 04:32 PM Re: What headphones do you use?  
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You got me there. Perhaps it's the way it was sampled. So stop playing just one note!!! Hehe...


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#689798 - 03/18/05 05:17 PM Re: What headphones do you use?  
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When you use the headphone with your Digital piano, do you notice that echo sound too Dezafinado?

Thanks.
Trihai

#689799 - 03/20/05 05:54 AM Re: What headphones do you use?  
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Gary Joseph Offline
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Gary Joseph  Offline
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Question regarding higher impedance headphones: Will a small mixer, like a Mackie 1202, serve the same purpose in boosting the signal of headphones as a headphone amp?

Second question, regarding impedance: Will a 300 ohm set of headphones require half the signal boost as a 600 ohm set? (AKG K240DF/600ohms vs Sennheiser HD600/300ohms)


Gary
#689800 - 03/20/05 12:54 PM Re: What headphones do you use?  
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dezafinado Offline
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dezafinado  Offline
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Quote
Originally posted by trihai:
When you use the headphone with your Digital piano, do you notice that echo sound too Dezafinado?

Thanks.
Trihai
I don't notice any echos with my PF500, even with the volume at maximum. It could be that the sound of the decay on your piano sounds like an echo.


I'm turnin' tricks, I'm gettin' fixed, I'm back on Boogie Street...
#689801 - 03/20/05 01:21 PM Re: What headphones do you use?  
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dezafinado Offline
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Quote
Originally posted by Gary Joseph:
Question regarding higher impedance headphones: Will a small mixer, like a Mackie 1202, serve the same purpose in boosting the signal of headphones as a headphone amp?

Second question, regarding impedance: Will a 300 ohm set of headphones require half the signal boost as a 600 ohm set? (AKG K240DF/600ohms vs Sennheiser HD600/300ohms)
Q1: Mixer should help with higher impedance HPs. If you're into HiFi HPs, a dedicated Amp is an excellent idea. This is something I'm looking into in the near future because most of the top-end HPs have higher impedance.

Q2: Ohm rating is the resistance. You also need to find out the efficiency or sensitivity rating (sound pressure level or "db SPL/mW"). It's kinda like car engines - horsepowers per liter. Assuming 2 HPs having the same "db SPL/mW", one at 300 ohms requires 1/2 the power to drive than one at 600 ohms to produce the same sound level.

Calculator: http://www.headphone-amplifier.com/calculator.htm


I'm turnin' tricks, I'm gettin' fixed, I'm back on Boogie Street...
#689802 - 03/21/05 06:09 AM Re: What headphones do you use?  
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Gary Joseph Offline
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Gary Joseph  Offline
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dezafinado, Thanks for the help. I've been following this thread for a while and have found it very informative.


Gary
#689803 - 03/23/05 10:09 AM Re: What headphones do you use?  
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Gary Joseph Offline
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Gary Joseph  Offline
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Just a follow-up to my own questions on this thread, and perhaps a reference to previous questions. I've just gotten a set of Sennheiser HD 600 headphones to use with my Roland RD700-SX. These headphones have an impedance of 300 Ohms, and when I plugged them directly into the keyboard, they work great, with the volume on the keyboard only about 1/3 of the way up. I'm using my mixer with them, for a bit of additional control, but the combination of signal strength from the keyboard and the 300 ohms rating of the Sennheiser seems to be a perfect match.


Gary
#689804 - 03/23/05 11:01 AM Re: What headphones do you use?  
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dezafinado Offline
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dezafinado  Offline
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Excellent HPs!

Though high impedance, they are efficient (97 db/mW). And your keyboard HP output is probably low resistance too.


I'm turnin' tricks, I'm gettin' fixed, I'm back on Boogie Street...
#689805 - 03/23/05 11:19 AM Re: What headphones do you use?  
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Gary Joseph Offline
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Gary Joseph  Offline
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Quote
Excellent HPs!

Though high impedance, they are efficient (97 db/mW). And your keyboard HP output is probably low resistance too.
Yes, they really are nice. The knowledge regarding nominal impedance and signal level at the headphone jack was new to me, and guided my purchase. Much appreciation. laugh


Gary
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