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#684360 - 12/03/04 10:27 AM Yamaha CLP170: Spatial Ensemble Effect  
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 26
digikey Offline
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digikey  Offline
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 26
Hi,

does someone here has experience with the SEE of the Yamaha CLP170? Is it worth to be considered?

I am toggling between the CLP170 and the Kawai CA9. I like the sound of the Kawai more (a little bit) But because i am playing Saxophone i am interested in this feature. (Not in the CA9).

What is SSE?
"This reproduces the reverberations and resonances of a real stage performance for a much more spacious, more natural sound. What's more, thanks to the built-in microphone, the same effect can be added to the sound of an accompanying musician to create the dynamic atmosphere of a live duet performance. You can also enjoy this "stage" effect when singing as you play."


playing: Korg 01/W, Korg 01/W pro, Roland G800, Kawai K4, E-MU B3
New: Yamaha CLP270
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#684361 - 12/03/04 12:21 PM Re: Yamaha CLP170: Spatial Ensemble Effect  
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 1,820
SteveY Offline
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SteveY  Offline
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Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 1,820
NJ
Don't be fooled by the marketing language. The only relevant question is: How does it sound to you?

If it sounds good -- it IS good!!!


PianoWorld disclaimer: musician, producer, arranger, author, clinician, consultant, PS2 aficionado, secret agent...
#684362 - 12/05/04 05:56 AM Re: Yamaha CLP170: Spatial Ensemble Effect  
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 26
digikey Offline
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digikey  Offline
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 26
I can not 100% aggree. From feeling and sound i would prefer the Kawai C9 but the differenze to the Yamaha is not such big. (i like both) But this SEE function - hardly to test in the store - is only offered by Yamaha.

Therefor i like to ask a CLP170 owner if this feature is really expressive and worth to be considered.

From my understanding it simulates a side effect of a real grand. If i play a note on the sax it simulates the strings in the piano and generates the resonance tones corresponding to the sax tone. Especially if the sustain pedal is pressed...

I am inexperienced (no piano experience yet) here.

Thanks
Christian


playing: Korg 01/W, Korg 01/W pro, Roland G800, Kawai K4, E-MU B3
New: Yamaha CLP270
#684363 - 12/05/04 06:31 AM Re: Yamaha CLP170: Spatial Ensemble Effect  
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 86
Kenpcola Offline
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Kenpcola  Offline
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Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 86
Pensacola, FL
My understanding is SSE stands for sympathetic resonance indertion effect in different term.
It simulates string resonance of pinao when you play one especially on sustain. But practically, how would you use that effect with saxophone? You need to press sustain pedal and the effect is just subtle one. In another word, that effect is just modified reverb effect that respond to the note you've just played.

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#684364 - 12/05/04 07:40 AM Re: Yamaha CLP170: Spatial Ensemble Effect  
Joined: Sep 2004
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ProPianoGuyBC Offline
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ProPianoGuyBC  Offline
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Posts: 388
Sympathetic Spatial Effect as I understand it involves the use of the built in piezo microphone to pick up the sound of another instrument, and output that sound through the speaker system of the piano. As I have never actually used or heard it I am unable to pass judgement on its effectiveness. But that is apparently the intended effect.
Propiano

#684365 - 12/05/04 09:33 AM Re: Yamaha CLP170: Spatial Ensemble Effect  
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 26
digikey Offline
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digikey  Offline
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 26
Exactly, according the description the Yamaha has two build in microphones and uses that microphones for the string simulation. That means also the sourounding sound stimulates the string simulation on the piano and generates resonance tones like a real piano.


playing: Korg 01/W, Korg 01/W pro, Roland G800, Kawai K4, E-MU B3
New: Yamaha CLP270
#684366 - 12/06/04 11:11 AM Re: Yamaha CLP170: Spatial Ensemble Effect  
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 20
FUNNYDOGNV Offline
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FUNNYDOGNV  Offline
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 20
NV USA
Just got a CLP170 I bought used, two "A" keys were damaged in transit. To replace the keys I had to open the box and there's indeed a microphone (looks like a condenser type) on the upper right corner outside the floppy drive, behind the treble speaker cover. There're also maybe two microphones in the stand but I havn't have the time to confirm it. Since I have very limited musical experience (less than 3 months of lessens so far) I cannot make a judgement for the sound, but on Yamaha's website (http://music.yamaha.com/productKeyboardsAST4.html) they have a way to show the SEE in effect:

"....In addition, to truly experience the power of this function and to see that it is not "surround sound" but a truly acoustic resonating chamber, set the iAFC to SEE (Spatial Ensemble Effect) and do the following:

Go to a grand piano with the lid open and yell your name into the piano. You will hear a slight echo of your voice. Now, go over to a Clavinova with iAFC and place you mouth near either the right or left side area above the keyboard and yell your name. You will hear the same effect as in the grand piano.

Also, go to any acoustic piano and tap on the lid. As you tap, you will hear an echo representing the sound chamber of the cabinet on the piano. Now, with iAFC on and set to SEE, do the same on the lid of the Clavinova. You will hear the same resonation as in the cabinet of the acoustic piano."

#684367 - 12/06/04 11:45 AM Re: Yamaha CLP170: Spatial Ensemble Effect  
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 161
fogwall Offline
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fogwall  Offline
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Posts: 161
Sweden
That's interesting. But this function does not have any effect with headphones or line out, does it? Does anyone have a sound recording demonstrating this SEE effect?

Edit: I listened to the different acoustic simulations at the above mentioned site but they all seem too artificial to me. Perhaps these effects will be improved in the next model. Also, the quality of the piano samples is not very good if you compare to the giga piano libraries. 36 MB is clearly insufficient, no matter how well you sample and filter the piano sounds.

#684368 - 12/06/04 03:25 PM Re: Yamaha CLP170: Spatial Ensemble Effect  
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 20
FUNNYDOGNV Offline
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FUNNYDOGNV  Offline
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 20
NV USA
I think so. According to the user's manual:

"iAFC cannot be used in the following cases.

When the Speaker setting is Normal, and headphones are connected.
When the Speaker setting is Off. "

I didn't hear the recordings from the site nor am I qualified to judge the sound, so I can't comment on the quality of the samples.

By the way, there is a microphone on either side of the main unit, behind the treble cover, and an "iAFC mic cord" to each of the speaker box in the stand, so I think there are a total of 4 microphones. Also, the GH3 keys are interchangeable with GH keys, if anyone is interested.


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