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Yamaha CLP 115 and Kawai CN2 (need advice) #680452
12/10/05 02:08 PM
12/10/05 02:08 PM
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 11
T
Tobias Offline OP
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Tobias  Offline OP
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 11
Hi,

first of all sorry for my bad english. I'm from Germany...)

I went to a music store to buy a digital piano in the lower to middle price range (I had classical training but am not very good and am now mostly playing for fun).

I tested the CLP 115 and the Casio AP 45 there. Somehow there was something in the sound of the CLP that annoyed me but since I liked the Casio sound even less and I really liked the action of the Yamaha I bought it there (the shop is not in my home town and I just went there for a day, so I had to make a decision). I also asked them about the Kawai CN2 and they said I could order it but they didn't have it there in the shop. The salesman told me that he didn't like the action of that piano very much.

Now I have the Yamaha at home and somehow I'm having a hard time with the sound. Don't get me wrong, the overall sound is great, but there's something in the reverb sound that's strange. It's most noticeable in the higher notes (G4 for example). It's as if the overtones are too dominant and sound "synthetically" somehow (like a mere sine waveform).

I could still send it back so I'd like some opinions on the Kawai CN2 because this would be my only other joice now. So this would be much appreciated.

Thanks a lot!

Tobias

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Re: Yamaha CLP 115 and Kawai CN2 (need advice) #680453
12/11/05 12:21 AM
12/11/05 12:21 AM
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 8,483
Ohio, USA
signa Offline
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signa  Offline
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Ohio, USA
if you're thinking about CLP, then don't get CLP115 which is the lowest end model of the sort and not even being updated to CLP200 series. you'd better off to add a few hundred $$ to get a better CLP model (at least CLP120/130 or even CLP230 and above).

btw, i tested a couple of Kawai models and found the action on those are much lighter than Yamaha's, which i prefer. i don't know this particular model though.

sorry, i didn't know you've already got CLP115 (after re-read your post). i'd send it back and exchange for a CLP120 or above model which has much better sound!

Re: Yamaha CLP 115 and Kawai CN2 (need advice) #680454
12/11/05 04:29 AM
12/11/05 04:29 AM
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 11
T
Tobias Offline OP
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Tobias  Offline OP
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 11
Hi,

thanks a lot for your reply. I played the CLP 230 and while I liked it a little better I still had the same feeling about the sound I described above. Also, the CLP 230 would cost 500€ more which is more than I can afford at the moment (I'm still a university student).

Tobias

Re: Yamaha CLP 115 and Kawai CN2 (need advice) #680455
12/11/05 05:00 AM
12/11/05 05:00 AM
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 11
T
Tobias Offline OP
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Tobias  Offline OP
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Joined: Dec 2005
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One more thing: it does sound slightly better when I play with headphones. But still there's this annoying reverb sound. I think it's some kind of digital effect. The reverb effects (hall, stage, etc.) also annoy me but this other sound stays there when I turn them off. It's most evident when I play an accord loudly and hold the pedal. There's the effect described above and in the end there's a sound I'd describe as kind of a hiss...

Tobias

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Re: Yamaha CLP 115 and Kawai CN2 (need advice) #680456
12/11/05 10:10 PM
12/11/05 10:10 PM
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 8,483
Ohio, USA
signa Offline
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signa  Offline
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Joined: Jun 2004
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Ohio, USA
with headphone, you should definitely turn reverb off.

btw, can you exchange it to a CLP120 at least? also, CLP230 is a new model with GH3 keyboard which would cost more for sure.

Re: Yamaha CLP 115 and Kawai CN2 (need advice) #680457
12/12/05 03:15 AM
12/12/05 03:15 AM
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 11
T
Tobias Offline OP
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Tobias  Offline OP
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 11
Hi,

I don't think, the CLP120 is available anymore. I couldn't find it in any shops and it's not listed on the Yamaha Germany Homepage anymore. But a friend of mine has it (I only learned about this yesterday) and I played it yesterday and don't think that I'm missing anything there. Well, it has better polyphony but that doesn't really bother me. You can also adjust the brilliance of the sound and some other things and it has buttons for the settings instead of key combinations and MAYBE the speakers are a little better (though they are also only 20W). But it didn't sound differently and I'd have the same concerns with it as I have with mine. And I don't think I'd need all the settings it provides.

The only available alternative from Yamaha in my price range would be the CLP 220 but this seems to be exactly like the CLP 115, except for the recording function and the extended polyphony.

So, I think if nobody here can comment on the Kawai CN2 I will try to find a shop where I can test this, then maybe also consider the CLP 230 again even though I don't think I can afford it and otherwise settle for the 115. It's not that bad... I'd just like to know that I could do no better in this price range. smile

Thanks again.

Tobias

Re: Yamaha CLP 115 and Kawai CN2 (need advice) #680458
12/12/05 06:32 AM
12/12/05 06:32 AM
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 271
south africa
gilad Offline
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gilad  Offline
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south africa
i'm not sure about the price off hand, but what about getting a p 250 intead? i'd rather choose a better piano sound over the cabinet.

Re: Yamaha CLP 115 and Kawai CN2 (need advice) #680459
12/12/05 07:10 AM
12/12/05 07:10 AM
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 11
T
Tobias Offline OP
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Tobias  Offline OP
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 11
The P250 is more than twice the price of the CLP115 from what I can see...

Tobias

Re: Yamaha CLP 115 and Kawai CN2 (need advice) #680460
12/12/05 05:33 PM
12/12/05 05:33 PM
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 271
south africa
gilad Offline
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gilad  Offline
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Posts: 271
south africa
woopsy, sorry tobias wink . have you tested the higher end yamahas? if you did test them did you hear that annoying sound? just curious.
I'd say you definitely should go find a kawai cn2 to test you might prefer it. i'm not familiar with kawai so i'm sorry i can't give you any informaton on it.

Re: Yamaha CLP 115 and Kawai CN2 (need advice) #680461
12/13/05 01:11 AM
12/13/05 01:11 AM
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 11
T
Tobias Offline OP
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Tobias  Offline OP
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T

Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 11
Yeah, I played on the CLP 230 for a while and while it did sound better I kind of felt the same about the sound.

I will drive to a different town today where I can play the Kawai CN3 which seems to be identical to the CN2 as far as sound and action goes (it just has more buttons, settings and effects). I guess they will also have some higher end Yamahas there. I hope this will help me make up my mind.

But thanks for all your replies. They are still very much appreciated.

Tobias

Re: Yamaha CLP 115 and Kawai CN2 (need advice) #680462
12/13/05 12:38 PM
12/13/05 12:38 PM
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 11
T
Tobias Offline OP
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Tobias  Offline OP
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 11
Now I played the CN3 and I have to say I totally agree with the salesman that sold me the CLP 115. While I slightly preferred the sound of the CN3 over the CLP 115, the action just isn't as good. It feels too soft somehow.

I also played the CLP 230 and the CLP 270 and came to the same conclusions again: I like the action much better than on the CLP 115 and the sample also sounds better. But the "overtones problem" is still there for me.

Finally I played the CA5 by Kawai and this is really a wonderful instrument. I like the sound of it best of all the digital pianos I have played yet. But I just don't have the addtional 1000€ to buy it.

So I guess I will keep the CLP 115 even though I'd prefer the CLP 230 or even the CA5. But already 600€ more for the CLP 230 don't seem to be worth it for me. I guess I will buy another one a couple of years from now when the technology is even further refined and I'm earning my own money. smile

Thanks for all your help!

Re: Yamaha CLP 115 and Kawai CN2 (need advice) #680463
12/13/05 10:15 PM
12/13/05 10:15 PM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 88
Madison, Wisconsin USA
J
John WI Offline
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John WI  Offline
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 88
Madison, Wisconsin USA
You might want to check out the Kawai CN4. I recently bought one and like it quite a bit. I think it is between the CN3 and the CA5 in quality and price.


John Wisconsin
Re: Yamaha CLP 115 and Kawai CN2 (need advice) #680464
12/14/05 03:20 AM
12/14/05 03:20 AM
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 11
T
Tobias Offline OP
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Tobias  Offline OP
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T

Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 11
Hi,

well, as I didn't like the keyboard of the CN3 compared to the CLP 115 I don't think I will like the CN4 any more because according to one of the Kawai guys it has the same keyboard and action. And since it is more expensive than the CLP-230 I guess I would first consider buying this. But thanks anyway. smile

Tobias

Re: Yamaha CLP 115 and Kawai CN2 (need advice) #680465
12/14/05 04:30 AM
12/14/05 04:30 AM
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 26
Netherlands
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Schizo Offline
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Schizo  Offline
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Posts: 26
Netherlands
Hi Tobias,

Why aren't you going for a Roland digital of the HP series? Even the HP101 (beginners model) I found more attractive than the CLP115. I have also tried the Kawai CN2, but I found the sound very "light", I guess due to the speakers. The CLP115 (in my opinion) is not playing like a real piano. The sound of Roland is more warm and romantic, but it is very subjective.

-Krista

Re: Yamaha CLP 115 and Kawai CN2 (need advice) #680466
12/27/05 05:53 PM
12/27/05 05:53 PM
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 8
Freiburg, Germany
J
JBS Offline
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 8
Freiburg, Germany
Hi Tobias,

I found the CLP-115 to be the best compromise for under 900 €. Compared it to Kawai CN-20, Casio PX-110, Yamaha P-60, Suzuki SS-90/SS-100. I have the same "overtone issue", but I can live with it. The Kawai sound on headphones was not tolerable to me, sounded artificial(or let´s say more artificial than Yamaha´s...). So did you keep your CLP-115?

Jochen

Re: Yamaha CLP 115 and Kawai CN2 (need advice) #680467
12/27/05 08:23 PM
12/27/05 08:23 PM
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 8,483
Ohio, USA
signa Offline
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signa  Offline
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Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 8,483
Ohio, USA
i'd rather buy a CLP230 than a CLP115 (the lowest end and sort of outdated model), even though it would mean i'd save money for little longer. it's worthy it to get a CLP230 instead, especially for its GH3 action.

Re: Yamaha CLP 115 and Kawai CN2 (need advice) #680468
01/07/06 03:40 AM
01/07/06 03:40 AM
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 11
T
Tobias Offline OP
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Tobias  Offline OP
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T

Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 11
Yeah, I kept the clp 115. I got used to the sound. At the moment I have more of a problem with the action which is quite stiff which is nice in the beginning but bothers me after a while of playing. But I guess I will get used to it. I think it was the right decision. It was not that expensive and I guess I will buy a new and better digital or even a real piano once I'm having an income.

Tobias

Re: Yamaha CLP 115 and Kawai CN2 (need advice) #680469
01/07/06 05:05 AM
01/07/06 05:05 AM
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 271
south africa
gilad Offline
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gilad  Offline
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south africa
good to hear you came right.

Re: Yamaha CLP 115 and Kawai CN2 (need advice) #680470
12/29/06 12:10 AM
12/29/06 12:10 AM
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 89
philadelphia, pa, usa
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rob1261 Offline
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philadelphia, pa, usa
After a lot of research and shopping for a good entry level Digital Piano that sounded and felt good, I ended up with the Kawai CN2.

The more I play it the more impressed I am with it. It can be bought for about $1000 US.

The salesperson and I both agreed the Grand Piano sound was better on the CN2 then the CN3.

I would recommend the CN2 over the CLP-220 and it is cheaper.

The CLP-230 is a different story but more expensive.

Re: Yamaha CLP 115 and Kawai CN2 (need advice) #680471
12/29/06 03:46 AM
12/29/06 03:46 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 55
Germany
Nin Offline
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Nin  Offline
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Posts: 55
Germany
Hallo Tobias:

I am in Germany as well. I am looking for a d-piano but I will definitely buy it in the Internet (prices are sometimes 500 Euros cheaper or more for the "big guys"). Just mail me and I could give you some advices.

First, the Yamaha CLP 115 is an old-model, so I would avoid to get one, and if you buy it, try to get a good deal for it (less than 900 Euros if possible).

On the other hand , personally I would rule out the Casios, and then comparing Kawai (CN2, for about 995 Euros), Yamaha (CLP 220, for about 1075) and Roland (HP-101, for about 999 Euros), I've got the following "subjective" sometimes impressions.

Kawai has better and softer sound, and taste feeling. The polyphony is higher (72-voices) but lower power (2x16 Watts). Yamaha has lower polyphony (64) but better potency (2x20). Roland has the same polyphony and power as Yamaha, but the piano sound is smoother and sweeter (which I personally like).

I personally prefer the Kawais over Roland and Yamaha, but it is only a question of taste. My selection for this range would be Kawai>Roland>Yamaha. But at the end, if you can afford it, I would do an effort to get the CA5 (I found it for approx. 1500 Euros), which is a reasonable option (nice sound and wooden keys) for this money.

At the end is a question of taste, if you like the sound, go for it.

Good luck!

Viele Grüsse!


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