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Joined: Sep 2005
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Just bought my RD700SX which is an awesome machine, however I am not charged over the piano tones. Some of them are great for jazz or ballads, but some of the tunes we play need a brighter tone top cut through. Many of the piano tones sound sound like a grand with the lid closed (I know that is a feature--didn't work), or almost like an amp inside of a box sound! Also the superior grand and others, tone decays into a metallic like constant tone. I cannot believe I like my FP-8 better (only in the piano area of course). Can you folks help me figure out how to get my FP-8 sound on my RD700SX. Any input would be appreciated!!! Thanks in advance!!!
Roland Parker Fly Fender of course
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The Roland people in this forum may be able to inform you which piano sample is used on the FP-8, and which sound module to buy (or sound card, which would be more convenient). I have a feeling you'd probably be looking for something along the lines of the pianos contained in the JV-1010 module.
As for your other issues, such as not having enough high end in the EQ, have you tweaked the 4-band EQ? I can get just about any desired EQ for any particular performing situation, combined with the lid height in the One Touch Piano. Many note that Roland's pianos are darker than Yamahas, but I can easily get the Superior Grand very bright. (Along the same lines, whenever I played a Yamaha stage piano, I could easily darken the pianos.)
What types of music are you playing? There are some older generation samples on the RD700SX. I like the RD600 sample as a rock piano.
On a side note, one of my bandmates recently told me he really misses my SRX-02 concert grand. That really surprised me, because I always found that piano to be problematic. I may just have to retrofit my RD700SX with that sound card. But before I do that, are there any new piano sound cards waiting in the wings that I should know about?
www.elclandestinomusic.com "Moralists have no place in an art gallery" ---Han Suyin "Paint's not really a great thing to bring into a museum" ---Adam Sorenson, The Shape of Things
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We're playing stuff from Pink Floyd to JoDee Mesina to Bruce HGornsby and Travis Tritt. It is the Tritt and Hornsby stuff where I want that brighter sound, not a cloudy box sound! Yeah, I agree on the 600 sound. Its pretty good, but not quite there! My bandmates think I'm nuts, but then I don't tell them how to set their gear! Yes I tried the EQ and the lid feature on the Superior Grand. I found the touch to be a better place to gain brightness, but I couldn't lose the box sound! If a card is available, I'll be all over that!!! Please let me know if it is available!!! Thanks again, Kelly Gleason!!!
Roland Parker Fly Fender of course
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I know how frustrating this can be trying to get exactly the sound you want.
From your description (although I can't be entirely sure, so bear with me), it sounds like an EQ issue combined with amplification and the room. Something can sound really great through headphones, but awful through an amp in a specific room. Or vice versa. This is why I rarely base my purchasing decisions on how something sounds through headphones or even on a showroom floor. I need to get feedback from performers who've used the products in real world situations.
My experience with the RD700SX so far has shown that the signal it puts out is VERY hot, compared to previous Rolands, certainly compared to anything in the FP line. A difference in signal strength might not seem like a big deal, but it has caused problems for me. (It would seem like a simple matter of just turning down the volume on the amp, but it's not quite that simple.) You might want to try spending time with your amplifier.
I know my mixer/amp/speaker combination very well (I've used it for over ten years), so adjustments for me are intuitive. Usually problems with sound are better solved with that route. Yesterday, I played an incredibly difficult room that produced a horribly tubby mid-range to my Superior Grand. (This might be similar to your boxy description.) Unfortunately I didn't discover this before showtime, so I had to make adjustments on the fly.
I cannot describe the piano samples on the RD700SX to be boxy on their default settings. Of course, what people find desirable in a sound varies widely, so it could very well be that this simply is not the keyboard for you. Is it too late to return it for a full refund?
www.elclandestinomusic.com "Moralists have no place in an art gallery" ---Han Suyin "Paint's not really a great thing to bring into a museum" ---Adam Sorenson, The Shape of Things
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Joined: Nov 2001
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I think pianomad might be right about this.
The only thing I'd add is to treat EQ subtractively. In other words, don't just add what you want to hear. Remove what you don't want to hear. If something sounds boxey and you wish it had more bite, don't just crank the highs -- roll off some of the low end and see if that doesn't do the trick.
PianoWorld disclaimer: musician, producer, arranger, author, clinician, consultant, PS2 aficionado, secret agent...
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I have run this keyboard thru a New Mackie PA system and my own peavey with JBL's and got roughly the same result. Don't misunderstand me, I don't dislike this piano, just the piano sounds. I need to spend more time to retry some of the settings! When I'm jazzin', or playing soft and slow, some of the tones are superior! If you could hear my style of play, you would understand why I want that FP-8 sound. I shudder at the thought of bringing both boards! Pianomad: you are 100% right about playing thru headphones only...I DID! It sounded awesome. Should have hooked it up first!I am sure I could bring it back, but I really don't want to! I would like to explore the sound card you spoke of earlier! Also, I was going to check out the Roland line of piano amps, maybe there is a cure there! Kelly
Roland Parker Fly Fender of course
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I know what you mean about preferring the FP-8. I know lots of people with FP-9's, and I've found them to be incredible. The thing that I think makes the new generation of Roland piano samples problematic for many people is that they ARE so different from anything in the FP line. My immediate reaction upon hearing the Superior and the Ultimate samples is "these are really thick and slightly fussy samples". I think we've grown very accustomed to the thinner (not "thin" in a bad sense, just less dense) samples of older generation keyboards and how they fit into a band mix. The new generation sounds don't fit in the same way. Also because of differences in sampling technology and mapping the samples, the pianos don't respond in the same way. There's a certain amount of "growth pain" involved in working with a new keyboard. Sometimes I'm VERY reluctant to move to newer models precisely because of this.
Anyway, look into one of the early SRX expansion cards. I'd advise against the SRX-02 concert grand, because this is even fussier than anything on the RD700SX.
Edit: I wouldn't look into getting a new amp; it sounds like what you have is just fine. If a boxy sound is what ails you, then running stereo samples through a mono amp probably won't help.
www.elclandestinomusic.com "Moralists have no place in an art gallery" ---Han Suyin "Paint's not really a great thing to bring into a museum" ---Adam Sorenson, The Shape of Things
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SteveY: I agree on the EQ needing some attention. I have only had the board for 4 days, and I need to do some work! I have an Alesis 30 band stereo EQ, perhaps I can identify the frequencies responsible for the "tubby" sound, and cut them down. Also, when you guys press your one touch button, do the rest of your tones (i.e., strings, E.Piano, Organs, etc) reset the keyboard to the setting you would find on start up. Mine does! Maybe there is a fix for that too! Thanks again for your responses so far. It is greatly appreciated!
Roland Parker Fly Fender of course
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Pianomad! You must have posted while I was typing. Yes! Growth pains would be an accurate explanation! I get it with my guitar gear too! I find the FP series to be incredible also. Some say they are too metallic (thin). I don't know about you guys, but for me its tough to play to my potential if the sound isn't there! Well I have to try a little more as I have to play tonight. I'll check back tommorro for any ideas you folks may have! Thanks Kelly
Roland Parker Fly Fender of course
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Hi Kelly. Most of the current piano samples, regardless of brand, need to be amplified in stereo. They do not translate to mono very well at all. This may be part of the problem you are experiencing.
Also .... The Superior Grand and X-Ultimate pianos have a lot of mids which makes them muddy/boxy etc.
You may like to try this experiment with the Superior Grand patch.
First, do a factory reset .... Edit, Utility etc.
Forget One touch Piano for the moment and just hit Tone Select/Piano .... (will give Superior Grand).
Turn on Equaliser. Scoop out all the mids with settings 500Hz, -12dB and a Q (bandwidth) of 0.5. ..... this is extreme but should get you in the ballpark of a better sound.
What do you think ? ...... frequency might be better at 400Hz or 630Hz ... 12dB cut might be too much .... a narrower bandwith (Q) might be better .... maybe 1.0 but this is the general idea.
If you need to brighten the sound even more try about 3dB boost at 6300Hz with a Q of 0.5. (or set the touch to 'Light" which you already know about).
Takes a while to get to know the RD700sx. It's full of Equalisers, Effects and Editing functions that need to be explored .... a bit tricky at first.
Not sure about that FP-8 piano sound ..... it may be in a piano module Roland put out called a P330 . I have to agree that some of those older piano sounds are quite good ... they translate to mono quite well (some are mono) and are very easy to amplify.
Just BTW, the Grand RD and RD600 patches on the RD700SX are the same ... I have no idea why this is so.
Let us know how you go Kelly. Please share any of your findings. Got to go but will check back. Cheers, Charles ; >)
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Joined: Sep 2005
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Thanks for the suggestions Charles P. I did try to flatten the mids, and although it was an improvement, it didn't hit the mark. I lowered the low end and also found a great deal of improvement. All of this was in stereo. What I finally settled with was the 600 Grand (in the 1 touch section). Dealing with the touch I was able to considerably thin out the tone. It was very close to my FP-8. Alot of string resonance, but close. Most of the keyboard has quite satisfactory tones, however the upper 2 octaves were extremely bright, which I was able to negate somewhat through the EQ. All in all I was pretty damn impressed. I'll keep trying!
Roland Parker Fly Fender of course
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Cool kelsnore. If the upper two octaves are too bright you maybe able to use the "Velocity Keyfollow Sensitivity" in the Edit/Key Touch menu ..... a plus setting may help solve that issue. BTW, if you are interested, the opening and closing of the lid simulation is an EQ thing ..... boosting or cutting at 1600Hz with a Q of 0.5. .... cheers.
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I do use the lid feature. I was unsure what exactly the "Velocity Keyfollow Sensitivity did. I will try that to temper down those stinging bright keys. I wish Roland had a little better explanations of the effects and tones and how to manipulate them. I actually found better advice here! Thanks everyone for your input. Hopefully I'll have this machine put out some smoking hot sounds. I feel it is capable. If I come up with any great tones, I'll let you know! Thanks again! Kelly
Roland Parker Fly Fender of course
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I hope you're able to find a solution. It's certainly a drag to have to settle. Do you still have the FP-8? Maybe you could use both keys on your gigs? A rack of keyboards looks cool. BTW, I recently passed through Merrill on our way up to Duluth MN. Maybe next time we head up that way we could stop to see your band. How often do you play and where? If you guys ever find your way down south to Madison let me know.
www.elclandestinomusic.com "Moralists have no place in an art gallery" ---Han Suyin "Paint's not really a great thing to bring into a museum" ---Adam Sorenson, The Shape of Things
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We are just getting started. It is a rather exceptional group, chock full of rather exceptional players. Marty, our lead G player opened an unbelieveable recording studio in Wausau, Wi. We are the studio players. Although I am the newest player, the transition into this group has not been hard. I haven't played in some time as great musicians are hard to come by. They coaxed me down, and I'm glad they did! I will let you know when we are up and running. Last night we blew the crowd away! Later.........Kelly
Roland Parker Fly Fender of course
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by Stephen_James - 04/17/24 10:36 AM
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