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*Reasonable* Clavinova Dealer in NYC area #677844
01/07/08 12:48 PM
01/07/08 12:48 PM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 11
New York
captaz Offline OP
Junior Member
captaz  Offline OP
Junior Member

Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 11
New York
Is anyone familiar with a reasonable Clavinova dealer in the New York City area (or one willing to ship there at a reasonable price). I was quoted $6500 (net) for a CLP-280 P.E. by the F&C's on 57th, which seems to be a good $1000+ more than anyone has paid on the "prices paid" thread.


"I seek not for power but to pull it down."
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Re: *Reasonable* Clavinova Dealer in NYC area #677845
01/07/08 12:59 PM
01/07/08 12:59 PM
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,323
J. Mark Offline
1000 Post Club Member
J. Mark  Offline
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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,323
I don't think there are any other dealers in the area besides F&C. I think that's the whole point of territorial controls, no? Annoying, isn't it?

OTOH, I can tell you that my personal experience is that the F&C in Westchester is both better stocked and more friendly. To be expected perhaps, but it is a completely different kind of experience going to the one up here. I don't know what the pricing would be like (may be the same, I don't know), but you will have to come up here to find out, I imagine (another part of Yamaha's little system of controls -- you can't get pricing on the phone).

Brian Lee, who is a regular here, is a manager for F&C, and I think he still works in the Westchester store. Very nice guy, and a straight shooter. I would try to find out when he is in if you were coming up.

Re: *Reasonable* Clavinova Dealer in NYC area #677846
01/07/08 01:05 PM
01/07/08 01:05 PM
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 4,534
G
Gyro Offline
4000 Post Club Member
Gyro  Offline
4000 Post Club Member
G

Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 4,534
This is of course a fine piano, but $5500 is
a brobdingnagian amount to pay for a digital
piano today when you can get a good one
for less than $1000, for example, the
Casio PX-700 ($500 to $700), PX-800 ($700
to $900), etc. For example, my digital,
a Korg SP-250 lightweight console, was
$900 online, and it serves well for playing
anything, including concertos.

Re: *Reasonable* Clavinova Dealer in NYC area #677847
01/07/08 01:13 PM
01/07/08 01:13 PM
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 18,348
Lexington, Kentucky
Monica K. Offline

Platinum Supporter until Dec 31 2012
Monica K.  Offline

Platinum Supporter until Dec 31 2012


Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 18,348
Lexington, Kentucky
NYC businesses have a much higher overhead than average, and they have to pass that on to consumers. I would also take the "price paid" thread reports with a grain of salt. I imagine there's a bit of a subtle pressure to post very good deals only. If you paid a lot more, you might be unwilling to have the whole forum know what a lousy negotiator you are laugh , so I could understand people choosing not to post higher prices in it.

In short, I think there are several possible, good reasons why the price you were quoted on the CLP is higher than you saw on that thread. The question is whether you are happy with the piano and think it is good value for you. What other people claim to have paid for it in other areas of the country is much less relevant.

Re: *Reasonable* Clavinova Dealer in NYC area #677848
01/07/08 01:40 PM
01/07/08 01:40 PM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 11
New York
captaz Offline OP
Junior Member
captaz  Offline OP
Junior Member

Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 11
New York
Monica K. You make a very astute statistical point about the self-selection problem of the "prices-paid" thread. If I end up paying through the teeth for this thing, I doubt I will post what I paid and look like the biggest chump on the thread. I'm sure I"m not the only one reluctant to post "discount-free" prices. My problem is that I am almost willing to pay their price. A few more weeks without something to pound on, and I'll cave....and I think they know it.

Gyro: You make a very valid point--but my desires to save thousands are downright Lilliputian compared to my wife's desires for aesthetic cohesian in our small apartment. I married and artist and this is one of the costs.

J. Mark,
Thanks for the tip. I'll try to hit the one in Westechester and possibly even the F&C's in New Jersey. Worth the trip if it will save me even a few hundred dollars.


"I seek not for power but to pull it down."
Re: *Reasonable* Clavinova Dealer in NYC area #677849
01/07/08 02:05 PM
01/07/08 02:05 PM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 19
Austin, Texas, USA
Riff Raff Offline
Junior Member
Riff Raff  Offline
Junior Member

Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 19
Austin, Texas, USA
Quote
Originally posted by Monica K.:
NYC businesses have a much higher overhead than average
And yet, B&H Photo in NYC tends to have lower prices than almost anyone for photography equipment. Low enough that it's worth it for many people to buy from them online and have it shipped. I'm very skeptical of the argument that NYC businesses inherently need to have higher prices.

Re: *Reasonable* Clavinova Dealer in NYC area #677850
01/07/08 02:23 PM
01/07/08 02:23 PM
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,323
J. Mark Offline
1000 Post Club Member
J. Mark  Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,323
B&H has a huge internet and phone business, and buys and sells on volume. And I suspect they are not subject to vertical price fixing and horizontal territory restrictions (that should be but are not unlawful these days).

Monica -- I think it is also possible that the opposite happens: that is, people who get really good deals are dissuaded from posting the prices, due to pressure from the retailer, who may fear mftr punishment for selling so low.

Gyro -- I am reluctant to make Absolute Proclamations, but I am absolutely confident in saying this: there is no DP on the market for $1,000 that even remotely compares to a CLP-280. I've owned several of the lower-end DP's, and they are not in the same universe as the high-end CLP's.

Re: *Reasonable* Clavinova Dealer in NYC area #677851
01/07/08 04:20 PM
01/07/08 04:20 PM
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 339
FL
dk21208 Offline
Full Member
dk21208  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 339
FL
A couple thoughts:
1. I posted my price paid report even though I think what I paid was higher than anyone else who shared for same model. (Getting slightly off topic) Unfortunately, the biggest impact (certainly with Yamaha) is regional location. Yes, you may feel like a chump when a fellow poster can get something for a couple thousand less, but I personally did the best I could in my area, and accepted that it was not feasible for me to travel to more affordable regions in order to make the purchase this time.

2. Absolutely negotiate with *EVERY* dealer that you can go to. Use the Yamaha dealer finder on their website and use as many of your local zip codes you can think of. The only way you are going to get the best price locally is to make them fight for and earn your business. As an example I wanted a CVP-407. The first dealer I went to absolutely would not negotiate and suggested in my price range I should buy the discounted last years model (CVP-307) for a much better price. The next dealer I went to immediately beat the other dealers best price and it was for the 407 that I wanted. Suddenly dealer 1 is very willing to negotiate...

3. You should also ask anyone you know outside of NY to help you shop for your digital. What I ran into is that Yamaha is cracking down on out of area sales and I could not get anyone willing to make the sale without walking into their store. If you convince some out of state relatives and friends to help negotiate the purchase you may get a price that makes it worth shipping.


Dean
Re: *Reasonable* Clavinova Dealer in NYC area #677852
01/07/08 06:12 PM
01/07/08 06:12 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 7,439
torrance, CA
turandot Offline
7000 Post Club Member
turandot  Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 7,439
torrance, CA
I did not post my price and source in that thread because the person who referred me to the source requested that I not do that. I doubt if I am the only one in that situation, so I would second J Mark's point of view that the absence of price reports from members who think they overpaid is probably offset by the absence of people like me. Also, I would think that even if the thread represents the lower end of the price-paid index, it can empower members to shop wisely and avoid being taken advantage of. If someone wants to pay no attention to that thread and dismiss it with a grain of salt, no one else will be the poorer I suppose.

I don't buy the high-cost-of-doing-business-in-NYC justification of a higher price either. The acoustic piano market is replete with defenses about the high cost of certain store locations, of flooring inventory, and the value added by careful prep and tuning. Add to that the mysteries of territoriality, MAP, no phone or e-mail price information and you wind up with a uniquely different price for every buyer... a price that is largely dependent on the buyer's price knowledge and skill at negotiation.

When I shopped digital, the first thing I did was determine which lines the big three: (Yamaha, Kawai, and Roland) chose to play the price protection game with, and which lines they allowed to be sold on the free market. The dividing line between the two categories seemed to be a little different for each maker. I wanted a Roland. The dividing line for Roland was that cabinet models were protected and stage pianos were not. I had wanted a cabinet model, but never even looked at one. I decided that I'd rather build my own cabinet if necessary than play the role of the patsy in the piano retail shell game.


Will Johnny Come Marching Home?
The fate of the modern wartime soldier
Re: *Reasonable* Clavinova Dealer in NYC area #677853
01/08/08 09:44 AM
01/08/08 09:44 AM
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 81
G
Greyhound Offline
Full Member
Greyhound  Offline
Full Member
G

Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 81
I went through the same experience with F&C (in Paramus, NJ). Decent product but was overpriced compared to the competition, and the dealer really didn't seem interested in my business. I ended up with a GEM RP800 from Royal Music, Toms River (~$2,100).

As for those arguing higher prices in NYC...I do believe that. Midtown is extremely expensive ($/ft2), downtown area where B&H is located is less per ft2. Also, I'm in agreement with JMark (heavens forbid!) regarding B&H's volume & internet sales. Disclaimer...I'm a huge fan of B&H...bought equipment both in-store & via phone.

Expand your search beyond Yamaha Clavinova series since there's alot of possibilities on the market.


Enjoy life...this is not a dress rehearsal.
Re: *Reasonable* Clavinova Dealer in NYC area #677854
01/08/08 11:07 AM
01/08/08 11:07 AM
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 136
New York
transpsych Offline
Full Member
transpsych  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 136
New York
J. Mark,

Long time, no see!
I am no longer in our Westchester location. Currently, I am the manager of Frank and Camilles in Paramus, NJ. We've done a tremendous overhaul of personnel recently and are confident these changes will be beneficial to our company and most importantly, our customers.
All three locations mentioned in this thread are currently staffed with some of the most informed , friendly, and professional staff in this industry.
We are extremely competitive with regards to pricing and we most certainly are interested in your business.
Most of all, we're pretty darn reasonable!


Brian Lee
Frank and Camilles' Keyboard Centers of Hartsdale
Representing Yamaha, Petrof, Nordiska, Pearl River,Kohler & Campbell in NY/NJ

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