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I understand there are a lot of posts on these forums about this, so I thank you guys in advance

Here's my quick background: just graduated from college. Took classical lessons during 3rd-10th grade. Now I want to start playing classical again and learn jazz. I want a stage piano for the portability. However, weight is not really an issue - I just want something that wouldn't take up much space if I had to move it. My budget is in the $2500 max range for a keyboard. I will not be gigging (at least for a year or so... I'm not worrying about lugging this thing around a lot).

After doing a bunch of research, I think I've narrowed it down to the RD-700SX and Kawai MP8. I'm not so sure about the Yamahas since they have so many darn models and their touch is supposedly on the heavy side. I’ve tried out the 700SX and like it, but I tried it out in a room at a store that was pretty noisy so I don’t know how well the action connections to the sound.

This will be for home use and I'll probably be using headphones most of the time. At this point I'm leaning more toward a better action than a better sound. From what I’ve read on these forums, the MP8 is better in this category? Is 700SX action still pretty good for a digital piano (is it on the light or heavy side)? One of my goals is to get as close to a “real piano” as possible—this would make returning to one when I get the chance easier.

At this point I need some opinions from you guys. I’m guessing that 700SX and MP8 are both pretty good – it’s a toss-up as far as I’m concerned. I’m looking for something that will tip the scales. The Roland would be easier to buy since I could get it locally, but it shouldn’t be too hard to get an MP8 shipped here.

Other things I need (that I think MP8 and 700sx already have):
-Half damper effects
-Easy recording abilities using MIDI and USB
-Preset drum beats (particularly jazz) as well as a sound effects setting to make my own beats.


Thanks a ton!

Sounds like the MP8 is exactly what you are looking for. I think you can stop looking, after you try it out for yourself of course.

you might want to check out Yamaha CP300, which is a new model to replace older P250. it's little over $2000 and worth looking at. you never know how it feels unless you try it of course.

I have just bought a Kawai ES4 and when I got it home and sorted out the options down to a straight piano sound and touch I was absolutely staggered at the ease of playing, compared to my 70 years on acoustic pianos. I only did a few scales and stuff in the shop as I was sure I would like it.

It is just the ticket for my silent practice on ear phones and is far less tiring on the hands and fingers.

The price in UK was about £950 say $1900 US, without the stand as I have made one to save money and they had none as they were awaiting new shipments.

I would have gone for the MP8 but did not need all the bells and whistles and the price was quite a lot more.

I know one thing, if one learns the piano on a 'keyboard' they are in for a huge shock when they try an acoustic piano. The ease of playing, after all these years on an acoustic and then to digital is really unbelievable, but certainly the best way round. I will not stop playing the Bosendorfer, oh no! they have a heart and soul.

But digital will become the future I think and then we will all compete for ability on the digital side show affects department.

Alan (swingal)

I grew up on an acoustic (it wasn't that great, but I did do recitals and a few competitions every year on Steinways).

The problem with the MP8 is that the only Kawai dealer in the area doesn't carry them anymore so I won't be able to get a feel for it. Even if they did, I haven't played piano in so long (maybe 5 times in the last 5 years) that I trust your guys' opinions more than my own.

Is the MP8 really that much better than the 700SX? Like I said, it'd be much easier to get a 700SX since I can get it locally, but will get the MP8 if it is better. Also, I'm kind of unsure on the Yamahas. I can't find any higher end ones like the CP300 to test, but I'm a bit cautious of them since I've been told they have a heavy action.

Thanks a bunch guys... keep up the advice and suggestions!

I'd like to put my 2 cents in ...

Based on the posts in this forum, especially from a member called Bachmaniac, I was seriously considering buying a Kawai MP8. However, I finally came to my senses because no dealer in my area carried one and therefore I would have been forced to make a purchase based on blind faith. Big mistake!

I'm now concentrating on offerings from Roland, specifically a new model that will be arriving in stores sometime in March. It is called the Roland FP-7, and at this point, it's unclear on how the action and sound compares to an RD-700SX since no one has had the opportunity to play the DP yet.

Anyways, there is more to consider than Kawai, which I have found is lacking in customer service (my e-mails were ignored) and has an extremely poor dealer network.

The FP-7 can be found online for $600 less than the 700SX, so I'm guessing the 700SX is a bit better.

I don't mind ordering an MP8 if I don't have a chance to play it. I trust those on here who have.

Don't let the price fool you. The FP-7 comes with a brand new action the PHA II. No one knows how it will fare compared to the older PHA though. The FP-4 has the new PHA Alpha II action which is a compact version of the PHA II but is stiffer than the PHA on the RD700SX.

IMO after testing the FP-4, the piano samples are superior on the RD700SX. They both use 88-note sampling but they aren't the same sample.

You have to figure out what you really want before deciding on a list of keyboards. From your requirements the MP8 fits the bill. However, I would like to concur with Larraby. The Kawai dealer network in my local area stinks as well. Between Yamaha, Roland, Korg, and Kawai, the Kawai dealers were the worst. If I can help it I don't want to give them business.

However, to be objective, I feel that Kawai's all wood actions are probably the best. I wouldn't get the MP8 based on the weight alone, but it really does feel nice. The action is the same as the CA-5 so if your dealer has one of those you can get a feel for the action that way.

I'll keep an eye out for the FP-7.

However, there's no way I'll be able to try out any Kawai AWA action. I'm relying on the forum here.

Does anyone have any experience on the 700SX versus the MP8?

I tried out an 700sx in the store and thought the action was lighter than my mp8 or my p90. Sound was nice. Personally I wouldn't buy a keyboard I couldn't try and carry home myself.

Howard

I will chime in for the MP8. I tried RD700SX, CP300 and CA-5 (the stores around me did not have MP8 in stock). The sound of CA-5 was vastly inferior to either Roland and Yamaha, but the action of Kawai was miles ahead (for me). So, I relied on this forum, and ordered MP8. I could not be happier with teh result. I also bought a pair of good quality monitors (Yamaha HS80M) for when I am not using the headphones and the sound IMHO is way better than any console digital piano I have ever heard, I am not even mentioning built-in speakers of stage pianos.

I would try to find one of CA-5, CA-7, CA-9 or CA-X to see if you are of the same opinion about he AWA action, though.

Just a warning. If there are no Kawai service centers or dealers in your area I would be VERY cautious about purchasing a Kawai instrument. IMO the hassle wouldn't be worth it. First off the thing is over 70lbs and if you have to ship it out every time you need to get it serviced this would not be a small thing. Second, Kawai's support is not as established as some of the other dealers like Yamaha and Roland, mainly I think because they sell less portable keyboards to begin with.

Anyway, these things may not be of concern to you, but I just wanted to make sure you were aware of some of the risks involved. Hope this helps.

Hi,I am a newbe from holland and a user of the Kawai mp8. If you don´t mind it´s awfull weight, it is a really good choise. The difference with the ca-x is something you have to concider. The lack of damper and string resonance is a remarkeble difference in solo mode.I bought it unseen and don´t regret it for a moment. I want to say also that it is possible to play pp, wich my yamaha p120 was not capeble of doing, and the almost unnoticed sample-switches are a plus too.I didn´t have any key-problems yet, wich all my previous stage-piano´s did after some time. the weight is a reall problem, You have to have a solid back,or some helpfull friends.

I have opened my previous stage piano´s and didn´t like the quality at all, but I still managed to solve key and other problems. So I won´t bother to much about service because your local music-store will probebly deal with all sorts of minor complications.Or open it yourself, it is scary at first, but if you do it carefully it is not a big deal.

Electronical problems will be solved with on-line operation-updates.There were several glitches in the first deliveries, but I think the latest updates take care of everything.

So you're saying the MP8 doesn't have damper and string resonance and the ca-x does?

Sorry, it looked a bit confusing, but I meant the ca-x doesn´t support damper and string resonance and the mp8 has both. They have the same mechanic/wooden action though.

AE_Charlie,

I bought the MP8 sight unseen. I was not able to try the Roland 700SX. I had tried several Yamaha pianos. I think the Yamahas sound nice too but the ones I tried (I tried several but don't remember models but they were just over $1k so I don't think they were comparable models) did not have piano-like keyboard.

I love my MP8. I bought it from KraftMusic. They have a 20 day return policy. I think the chances of something going wrong with your keyboard are low, but of course possible. I live in College Station where Texas A&M is and there are no dealers here for any of the keyboards. I personally think you should buy the best keyboard you can, regardless of whether someone is nearby to service it. I think chances of it needing servicing are very low and on the order of 5% if I had to guess. I have had 3 keyboards prior and I never had to get one serviced.

The Kawai had firm keys like a Kawai grand and the piano sounds are great. You have 256 notes polyphony and can do 4 way layer and splitting. You can always buy another sound module if you need to. I don't think it is strong on drums but to be honest, I am still checking out all the piano sounds and so busy playing I have not bothered to check out all the features yet.

It is quite heavy at 70 pounds and it is hard to lug around for gigs I would think, but definitely possible.

I think any of the upper end Yamahas, Roland, or Kawai would make you happy. I would just go by what you hear and get started. Kraft Music has some kits that come with everything (monitor speakers, stand, headphones, bench). I bought a kit but decided not to get the Yamaha PS50s because I heard they are a little wimpy. I think the Behringer Truths or Yamaha PS80s would serve you better, but I have not tried them myself.

If you have a Roland dealer with a 700SX in stock, I would at least try it before ordering. If you love it, you are done. If you really like it but don't love the action, go for the MP8. Bachmaniac was a great resource to learn more about the MP8 and his blogs were quite informative and this convinced me the MP8 was the way for me to go. I don't regret buying it blind. I think I could be happy with any of these high end keyboards. I loved the idea of 256 note polyphony and I heard from at least 3-4 people who definitely felt the action was better on an MP8.

There is a classic pianist Hugh Sung who ended up with a Roland he is happy about. I recommend checking out the huge 91 post blog on his experience shopping:
http://www.pianoworld.com/ubb/ubb/ultimatebb.php?/topic/6/2822.html

Good luck and let us know what you decide!

Charlie,

In response to your PM to me: Just going by action alone, I would have chosen the MP8. But, I had other considerations as well, weight beign one since I travel with this thing. The other was "tweakability" which I believe the 700sx has more of. Comparing the action of my RD-700sx to the CP175 (same action as the MP8) side-by-side, the Kawai wins hands down. It's a much smoother, more realistic action. I wouldn't call it lighter or heavier, just more realistic and smoother. The expansion slots on the Roland helped sway my decision as well.

I would also try out the new action from Roland be fore I bought anything. I'm happy with my RD-700sx, but I'm not a piano player. I'm a bassist trying to learn piano.

Also, if service is a concern then consider the Yamaha/Roland/Korg options. We've had no issue with our Kawai, including a software update I did myself.

Thanks for the help guys, I really do like your input.

I called Kawai just now and asked them about servicing. The guy (extremely nice and helpful) gave me the name of a certified Kawai service center that I could get it fixed under warranty at, so I no longer have any concerns about service.

He said there are a lot of certified service centers, even though there's only one Kawai dealer in Seattle (and they don't even have digitals). This is probably good advice for other people considering ordering Kawais online - though you might not be able to find it locally, you can probably get it serviced locally. Apparently he gets lots of calls from people ordering from Kraftmusic and musiciansfriend wondering if there are any local service centers.

I have been playing my MP8 tonight and I have to say I am quite smitten with it. I am learning blues and boogie woogie and it is awesome to take some well sampled grand piano sounds and tweak in some reverb.

I am saving up for a grand someday but for now I am surprisingly happy with my keyboard.

I think you could def. sell the MP8 if you buy it and then change your mind. You may lose a few hundred bucks, but I doubt you will change your mind.... There are a lot of people going that way right now.

Try the 700SX and then let us know what you decide. I am happy with my purchase from KraftMusic. I paid $1995. I think for $200 less you can get an open box one, but I decided to pay a little more to get a nice new one sealed in the manufacturer's box.

I paid $1,869.00 for the CP300 back in August.