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I know this is ignorant, but how can I run a midi file thru the art vista grand piano engine (in order to record and convert to mp3). Do I need other software for this? The same for recording, are there any options to allow for recording onboard the art vista software itself or will I need other programs?

I've managed to successfully install it for live playing, but don't know what to do to record or to convert and existing midi file into a recording (mp3) using the art vista gp voice.

Thanks.

You need a recording app.

Audacity is a free recording app that's popular with PW'ers. You should be able to get good help here, setting it up. It'd be a good idea to pass on any effects plug-ins and just get the app up and running.

Looked at the Audacity site. The info says that is can accept audio streams from some soundcards. You may want to get as much info as possible from PW'ers re which cards will work. Didn't see any info re MIDI recording.

The RiverPast audio convertor was recommended in this long thread on the Piano Forum. The thread is about the Zoom H4 recorder. It's c.$300. Monica Kern is an enthusiastic user. She recommends using the Zoom and Audacity (for normalizing).

If you want to stay with MIDI recording, Tracktion will do that. It's c.$100 here. Don't know if Tracktion will convert files to MP3.

I use Cubase SX2.0, with the Virtual Grand loaded into it as a plug-in. MIDI cables go from the digital piano to the soundcard (an E-mu 1212M). The 1212M is the default card for Cubase. The Virtual Grand is loaded into Cubase as a "plug-in."

In Cubase I create a "project" with a MIDI track, then record my work. During playback, I hear the sound of the Virtual Grand. Cubase will "bounce" MIDI files to audio and convert them to MP3's. Again, you'll hear the Virtual Grand during playback.

Cubase can be a bear for novices to set up. I had to hire someone to do it.

Thanks, fogville, appreciate the info.

I've tried running audacity while running the art vista piano at the same time, the record button on audacity is greyed out and it won't let me record. I can record the midi via mahlzeit's app, but unable to convert that into a mp3 with the art vista voice...

Guess I'll start looking at converters that allow plug-ins.

BTW, when they say you can reduce latency by lowering the buffer, is it the buffer in the art vista software? and which one, there're 2 buffers listed under options. I'm using asio4all and onboard sound and latency is showing 13ms.

What sound system do you have yours hooked up to? I'm running mine off of a logitech 70watt, it's workable for recording, but by itself, it doesn't sound that great, weaker and more muffled than my keyboard's on-board speakers...I only get an improvement when I play both the art vista and my on board voice at the same time, sounds slightly better with headphones.

The buffer settings are done in your soundcard. I've used ASIO4ALL with results similar to yours. 13ms should be fine for recording a solo piano. For purposes of your question, that "wrapper" qualifies as a soundcard.

The Virtual Grand is now loaded as a plugin in Cubase, and I can't remember whether those samples had a buffer setting. Other sampled pianos didn't have latency (buffer) settings. It may be that the Classic presets, being larger, require a higher latency setting, but I stopped thinking about that once I could get Cubase and Art Vista to work together.

Just opened Cubase and confirmed that the buffer (latency) setting refers to the soundcard. That makes sense. The recording app operates in real time, so probably doesn't care one way or the other about the card's latency setting.

Tracktion will do MIDI recording. Audacity users must download a free MP3 converter called LAME. That app should work with Tracktion, too.

My "sound system" is just a digital baby gand piano. The piano and the card both have MIDI and audio connections, so I just send MIDI info to the card, Cubase uses the card as the default card (the Virtual Grand is loaded into Cubase), and the card sends audio back to the piano. In effect, I send info to the card and the card sends audio back to the piano's speakers. Works real well.

I don't know enuf to know what the problem with the speakers could be. Looked on Logitech's site. Their speakers don't appear to be high end stuff, but I really don't know. I do know that it shouldn't take much to surpass the quality of most 'board's speakers.

What 'board are you using? I had a Yamaha P250. Its speakers were nothing.

I'm surprised more people haven't responded. Maybe start a new thread re recording a sampled piano. I'll help as much as I can, but I'm weak on techical aspects.

EDIT: mahlzheit already has an info thread re recording a piano. Haven't checked it, so don't know if it refers to audio or MIDI recording.

Thanks, Fogville for pointing me in the right direction!

I finally figured it out, went back and reread mahlzeit's faq and decided to go with the free cantabile lite he recommended, very easy to use, this will suffice for now.

Actually, I'm not that surprised by the sound, the logitechs are 5.1 but they were also $50 , and I'm still relying on my on-board sound chip (too cheap to grab a card as yet). The keyboard is a yamaha ypg 625, relatively low end...story of my life...the onboard sound is decent (it's stereo but no dynamic sampling, as a controller it seems to be doing a pretty good job). But now when I play both my onboard and art vista voices at the same time, the sound's almost like a real acoustic and the board feels different, seeming to come alive.

I can definitely tell a difference with the new sample, though, especially in dynamics/softer playing, longer sustain, and in recording...speaking of which, here is my first one:

http://www.box.net/public/5372catfvo

Tell me what you think (the sound, not the playing! I ended up using medium touch on the keyboard and soft-classic-wet in the app. Recording volume might have been a little low (forgot to turn it up when rerecording from the midi). Still doesn't sound as nice as the ttwy sample in the other thread.

BTW, not sure if it's my setup/poor speakers or what but does the F# a couple octaves up from center sound a bit too ff to you? Also, can you use multiple voices/plugins in playing/recording a sample in your vst host?

Thanks again for all you help, really appreciated!

Sid,

Your recording has background hiss. Not much, but it's still there. You should be able to save a WAV file directly from Cantabile, which gives you zero background noise.

Also, the piano just sounds weird. Did you do a lot of post-processing on this recording, because the sound sounds "damaged"...

mahlzeit,

hmm, the hiss is possibly due to the mic input in windows being on from my previous recording session.

As to the sound itself, can't think of anything, I didn't do any processing, I used your applet to record the midi while playing the standalone piano software, and then played the midi in Cantabile and recorded the wav in same, then used audacity and lame to convert to mp3. It may well be the distintinctive sound of the sample (one of it's charm is that it's supposed to be rather warty)...or maybe...some background apps I should have turned off while doing the recording (can't remember if anything else was running at the time)...I'll runoff another rerecording of the midi today and see if it's any better, if not then it's the sample. Good ear!

Well, it could simply be the MP3 encoding. If the WAV sounds good, then try encoding at a higher bitrate (192 or 256 kbps).

Cantabile turns on mic input by default ;-) Just uncheck "Input" checkbox in the levels panel of the main screen.

The piano doesn't sound as real as it should. Mixing two pianos can make the result sound richer, but over time, it won't sound natural. I did that same experiment in the past. Ultimately it's best to go with the best samples you can afford.

I did try some of Art Vista's other presets at first, but eventually settled on the Classic presets because of their dynamic range.

I like these samples, warts and all, but the ringing and volume increase of the upper notes is, for me, uncontrollable.

My ears are no longer sensitive enough to hear the hiss.

Looks like you've got this situation under control.

Fogville, I took a look at tracktion, looks promising, I like the clean user interface and relatively small footprint, I'm going to try it out, it says it has vst support don't know yet if it can take me all the way to mp3...man I'm tired of some of the bloat ware out there, good rec.

If Tracktion won't convert to MP3, LAME will. It's free, proven, and it's the converter that's downloaded into Audacity. (I looked at part of the Audacity tutorial.)

There used to be a Tracktion forum and probably still is. You may want to ask about MP3 conversion and LAME.

Tracktion does convert to MP3 within the program as long as you download the LAME dll and copy it into your Tracktion folder. It works greats.

I've been using Tracktion since it was a shareware program before Mackie bought it and I highly recommend it.

double post

You guys are the best, thanks everyone for the great advice.

Here's my rerecording, using new software and taking care with all the potential problems.

Mahlzeit, I think I figured out the the reason for the distortion, I keep forgetting to ramp up the polyphony on the vst piano when recording (it keeps defaulting to a lower value instead of the 150 I've arbitrarily decided I feel comfortable with), that might have have been the reason. Also turning off line-in, mic, and any background apps (also recording at higher bit rate) seemed to have solved the problem.

Here it is, I'm rather pleased with this copy, and could listen to the new piano for hours...

http://www.box.net/public/u5y1oahn0d

BTW, I've decided to purchase the tracktion, that software is just elegant, the interface is like something off of MOO3, only much much more intuitive.

Sid, the new recording sounds more like the Virtual Grand.

If I were starting over, I'd be sore tempted to go with Tracktion.

Fogviille,

Check out the one I just did for stephenc, it sounds a lot better on a slower piece.

http://www.pianoworld.com/ubb/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?/topic/32/3967.html

Haha, he, unlike me, can actually play piano

Sid, the character of the VG really comes thru. Those rich bass tones, the high treble notes that ring too loud...

Steinway B's are frustrating instruments. On the one hand beautiful music can be made with them. On the other hand playing triads in the left hand takes you right into that "Steinway mud." The undamped section of the treble strings just plain rings too loudly. For me those notes are pretty much uncontrollable. (No technique.)

The developer chose to present the VG with notes exactly as they came from the piano. To my ears, he could have attenuated those undamped notes;-)

Having said that, the VG is the only piano still on my computer.

Thanks for explaining the steinway to me, Fogville (at first I thought the makers had made an error in some of the values for those higher notes), I hadn't realized they were so tempermental...good thing you can control the volume and touch settings in the final recording to avoid any distortion (that is until you can develop the appropriate touch for the steinway).

It's definitely been a fun learning experience.

Sid, it's been a learning experience for me, too. I logged on to PW, to post that I'd tried the Classic Medium preset and learned that there's less ringing in those undamped notes. I suspect that I'll still play the Extended preset, to get the big dynamic range, but I'll upload material to the web using the Medium preset.

It's strange, as much as I like the VG, the tone of the Classic preset's treble notes is to high-pitched for my ears. The slight compression of the Medium preset took that out. Truly the world is not perfectly arranged.