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Theodore,
Go back and read this thread again. You're attributing things to me that I never said. Out of the keyboards mentioned in the original post, I recommended the RD700SX. I ONLY did so because someone else recommended a workstation and I felt that the learning curve might be a bit high for someone without much experience. I think a true digital piano (Yamaha or Roland) might be a great solution for them. I think an RD700SX could work as well.

When you jumped in, you didn't mention a digital piano because of the ease or simplicity of it. You made some irresponsible and disparaging comments about the RD700SX. I posted to provide an alternate view. I find it hard to believe that you really had the customer in mind.

But perhaps you could answer a simple question for me: Are you an authorized Roland dealer? If so, are you MI or CK?

After re-reading the original post, it would seem:

• Finderne would be fine with extra components.
• Cost was not overtly stated as an overriding issue. (He was contemplating workstations, after all.)
• He is not concerned with appearance (stage pianos and workstations don't make for good furniture in the living room, for those who care about such things)

Coming up with extra criteria and insisting your customer need to consider them is a hard sell tactic, appropriate for the show room (although not the kind I like to visit) and not a forum for the exchange of ideas.

Let's not make assumptions about what a 12 year can or cannot do RE: connecting components, or whether the setup "looks like heck". Some people like going modular; I think cables are sexy. Finderne's daughter might enjoy piecing things together (which she'll have to do if she's already got a knack for electronic music).

Don't get me wrong, Clavinovas are fine instruments; they fill a definite niche. I'm just not sure this was what Finderne was after.

Edit: after re-reading the entire thread, I'm heartened that people are offering useful advice, opinions, and posting links. I stumbled upon this forum a few months ago in researching my choices in stage pianos, and I got great straightforward answers to all my questions. Since then, I've been an avid reader of the forum. A resource such as this is invaluable!

The bottom line is that whatever solution ends being the RIGHT one will be the one which engages the original poster's daughter's creativity the best, and with a minimum of barriers. That will be purely subjective. Some parents and 12-year-olds will be excited by the prospect of wiring up a bunch of different pieces of gear. Others will be frustrated by it, wanting a single power switch and built-in speakers. Some will be engaged by the myriad of sounds and integration of a synth workstation, others put off by it. For some, the integration of a computer and software will be a way to open up new possibilities. For others, it will be an unnecessary hassle.

The point? Whatever engages the girl the most to continue practicing and start creating will be the successful solution, and that may take some trial and error. My gut tells me that a solution which is easy-to-use, well-integrated, and which offers up some quality, inspiring, playable sounds will be the best choice for someone who is still getting their feet in music.

The previous statement was a slushy attempt to take the middle road, probably empty of any useful information. So, which company offers such a solution? Certainly Roland AND Yamaha, as well as Korg, Kawai, and who knows how many others. Why do I know that? Because they're all still in business, all selling instruments, to people who are inspired by them to play songs, write songs, make music, and create.

The fact that some people really like Yamaha and others really like Roland have a lot more to do with the fact that each company pushes different peoples' buttons via sounds, features, touch, user interface, and whatever. Less to do with which is "better." That's something many people will forever disagree on, because different instruments are "better" for different people. I've owned a variety of Roland and Yamaha products over the years, and there have been things about every one of them that have been bloody brilliant, and other things which have been infuriating. Neither company has the market cornered on musical genius.

On the other hand, which company's instrument was sampled from a longer grand piano, who sampled what at what sampling rate, or who's listened to which products on more expensive studio monitors is completely irrelevant to the goal. As is all the manufacturer-specific partisan bickering. Let's face it, sitting at a Roland RD700SX will no more fool anyone into thinking they're playing a Steinway B or D than sitting at a Yamaha S90ES will fool anyone into thinking they're playing a CFSIII or S700. That's simply not the point. If it were, we'd all buy digitals, sell our pianos, and put the money saved in the bank.

NONE of that will be going through this girl's mind when she sits in front of whatever they end up purchasing. Much more whether or not she's getting into the music as she plays the thing.

Now, if it were my kid, I'd be shopping the following: Korg Triton Studio ProX or Extreme 88, Roland Fantom X8, Roland RD700SX, Yamaha S90ES, maybe the Yamaha Motif ES8 (the S90ES has most of the Motif's guts and a better piano sound for less money), Yamaha P250, probably the Korg SP500, possibly a couple "console" digital piano types. I would usually steer more towards traditional piano-type instruments for a young student, but it sounds like you're taking a less traditional approach (non-classical, less regimented) toward her musical training. This may take some time and a couple trips to the music store, but the level of your daughter's music engagement through her crucial teen years hangs in the balance. Any well-stocked store (like a Sam Ash or Guitar Center) will have most or all of the above on the floor. Sit your daughter at each. if she's not way into playing any one of them in 5 minutes, it's a bust. if there's one you can't pry her off of in 15, you're on to something. But weigh the "fun factor" in balance with the more mundane musical factors. if the sounds are so cool and wacky that she spends all her time on things with embedded drum loops and lots of effects, she'll never want to take the time to develop much in the way of playing technique on more mundane sounds (like piano). For a younger student, this could backfire into developing a musical nature that is all fluff and no solid technique.

As a kid, the way my parents got me around this whole thing was by forcing me to practice my lessons on the boring acoustic piano, and letting my free time on the synths be my reward. The synth time was entirely self-motivating, the piano time was forced labor. But at some point in my teen years, I made the connection between the two, and my time at the piano gradually became more fun, and my time on the synth more skillful and reasoned. Cross-pollination.

Hey, look at the long, boring book I just wrote. Peace all.

Not boring at all. I really appreciate the advice on practice habits. I think we will need to start doing something like that, especially if her piano practice habits start to slide in favor of the other toys, err features.

Bob, excellent well-written and thought out book.

The bells and whistles may be a concern since the student in question is at that awkward age. Even at my ancient age, if I acquired a workstation I'd be like a kid in a candy store, stirring up phat beats while wearing a baseball cap crooked and donning bling. Okay, not really, but I would be messing around on the thing and not getting any piano work in. I remember when I got my first computer (a bulky Atari) and first sequencer (an early incarnation of Logic), I didn't touch a piano for months.

Let us know how your search goes. Maybe I can live vicariously through your experience.

I'm still awaiting Theodore's answer:

This sounds like a really interesting shoot-out! Something like I wish I could do sometime (but don't have the connections anymore to pull off). Like everyone else, I've only played them in various music stores through amps of questionable heritage and at trade shows.

Which Yamaha & Roland instruments did you compare? Which studio monitors do you have? $4k says that they must be REALLY nice.

Between my partner and I, we have a Fantom X8, XV88, XV5080 w/gobs of expansion boards. I've also had a RD700SX in the studio for awhile. We also have a Motif, a Triton, and have had a P250 in the studio. And to round it out, we have a lot of virtual instruments, including Ivory.

As for monitors, we have ADAM S2.5A's and KRK V8's.


I want to add a disclaimer: My goal here is not to push any one manufacturer. I have my own tastes just like anyone else, but I don't think it's helpful for anyone buy based on one person's opinion from the web of all places! Rather, I want to encourage people to try things for themselves, do their homework, and keep an open mind. If they do, I'm confident that they'll choose wisely.

I just purchased Casio Privia PX700 which I really like and so would greatly recommend to a person, who wants principally a piano. This doesn't have a lot of features, basically the same as entry level Privia PX100, but the quality of piano samples is incredible, even speakers are pretty good and it looks nice, elegant. I payed for mine $700 in US.

I just saw a new Casio Privia PX700 at a Guitar Center - actually it impressed me so much I bought it and I absolutely recommend it to anybody who is interested in a good piano sound and doesn't need a lot of features. It costs $700 and piano sample is incredible, it has good speakers, beatifull keyboard touch and it even looks nice. In my opinion it is more than enough for anybody who just wants to practise a piano.

Hi Finderne,

I highly recommend the Yamaha P120.

The Yamaha P120
- has a very realistic piano keyboard feel (graded hammer effect = weighted keys)
- is portable, can be carried or stowed
- is simple and very straightforward to operate
- can record
- has several voices you can add in if desired, but not too complex
- has MIDI in / out ports if you want to connect to a PC or other devices (I can input to my PC and output back to the P120 for playback)
- has headphones so it can be played silently
- has on board speakers, but can be connected to external speakers as well
- is reasonably priced

I think this is a great all around instrument and recommend that you look at it seriously. (And BTW, get it before the dealers run out of stock, it beats the successor model P140 hands down!)

Good luck and let us know what you decide.

Tim

Steve Y,

Yes, MI.

Is this lika secret handshake?

Have a look of the new portable digital pianos GEM PRP series with DRAKE technology (from acclaimed Promega 3) at http://www.generalmusic.com/html/prodotti.asp?cod=prpser&lingua=eng&frame=ca
In Italy they will be out in Janaury 2006 with a street price of approx 950/1050 US$, have similar specs of Yamaha P250 (but with only 32 sounds) at half price. I'll probably buy a PRP800. Ciao,

Daniele

Good news: GEM PRP series in Italy will be out in mid december and they are much cheaper than I thought: 699 euro for PRP700 and 750 euro for PRP800, and just 25 euro for the triple pedal.
I've just ordered the PRP800 with triple pedal See links below. Ciao,

Daniele

PRP700 http://www.cherubini.com/product.asp?Id=2895
PRP800 http://www.cherubini.com/product.asp?Id=2894
Triple pedal http://www.cherubini.com/product.asp?Id=2896