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Clavinova Digital #668235
09/04/05 05:31 PM
09/04/05 05:31 PM
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 6
Sugar Land, TX
L
ljoyce Offline OP
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ljoyce  Offline OP
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Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 6
Sugar Land, TX
Hello All!
I have a 22 year old daughter who is a classically trained pianist. She goes to college and of course has left her Yamaha grand piano at home. She has joined an ensemble group on her campus and would love to have an instrument in her apartment that she can play on, rather than having to go find practice rooms on campus. Now remember, this is a kid who will be moving around alot over the next few years, so I am not interested in spending alot of money on a new instrument, or having to worry about moving an acoustic. I am looking to buy her a used Clavinova, understanding that that is probably the best digital. I am keeping my eye closely peeled on Ebay, and see soooooo many different models. What is most important to us is not all the electronic bells and whistles but rather an instrument that has an authentic feel, and a sound that is a good replica of the real thing so that she is able to adequately practice, and of course 88 keys and preferably 3 pedals. Right now I'm tracking on Ebay a Yamaha Clavinova CVP-10PE. Does anyone have any idea what this is, and is it worth bidding on? Any other ideas on a good digital would be appreciated. Is a Korg any good? Should I even consider Kawai's? What about Rolands?
Any help is greatly appreciated.

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Re: Clavinova Digital #668236
09/04/05 07:21 PM
09/04/05 07:21 PM
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 374
H
hawk85 Offline
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Posts: 374
You might want to try out the CVP Users Group Forums as they discuss both the CLP series and the CVP series: http://www.cvpug.com

I have not been very impressed with used Clavinova prices on eBay in general. However, I have seen some good deals from time to time.

Clavinova's are not extremely small pianos. Current models weigh up to about 200 pounds...not something I would want to move a lot.

If it were me, I would look at a portable keyboard for use at college. The Yamaha P-250 sounds and feels great. The P-120 is great too. However, these may not meet your individual requirments. Good luck.

Re: Clavinova Digital #668237
09/04/05 07:28 PM
09/04/05 07:28 PM
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 26
rhode island
stephenm52 Offline
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rhode island
Here's a link to the owners manual for the CVP-10PE.
This model was introduced in 1987 and I believe that in 1989 Yamaha began a new series. With an instrument that old I personally would not buy. Technology has improved and based on the e-bay bid at $511. for a few hundred dollars more you can purchase a newer Yamaha digital piano. You do not mention price you're willing to spend, but for the $800 to $1500 dollar range you can have a much greater choice of digitals. I'm sure there are others who will give you more feedback.
Another fact you made is that she will be moving around quite a bit the next few years. The Clavinova is not very portable at all. I own 2 of them a CVP107(made in 1999) and a CVP 307 (2004). The CVP 107 I have is for sale and am anxious to sell it, but it is not the piano you are looking for since it has lots of bells and whistles and is not portable.

You may want to think along Yamaha P series:
http://yamaha.com/yamahavgn/CDA/List/ModelSeriesList/0%2C%2CCTID%25253D205800%2C00.html

Roland has the RD series of digitals.
RD-700SX, the RD-300SX
http://www.rolandus.com/products/subcategory.asp?CatID=11&SubCatID=46

Re: Clavinova Digital #668238
09/04/05 07:28 PM
09/04/05 07:28 PM
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 4,534
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Gyro Offline
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Posts: 4,534
Today, digital pianos are approaching the point
where they are almost equivalent to an acoustic,
if they haven't already reached it.

Note that there are basically two types of
digital pianos: the "upright" style, that looks
sort of like an acoustic upright, and the
lightweight, portable "stage piano" style,
that you use with an X-frame stand, a detachable
pedal that looks like a computer mouse, and
a folding bench. Either type you can get
with 88 weighted hammer action keys and
sampling (sound) that is taken from an
acoustic grand piano. The Clavinova is
the "upright" style of digital piano. Note
that the uprights are fairly heavy. The
keyboard unit bolts onto a custom fitted
stand. The stand is light, but the keyboard
unit can weight around 70 lbs. or more on most
models. So it's movable by one person but
with some difficulty. The "stage piano"
type, by contrast, is very light, the keyboard
unit weighing only 25-40 lbs. It is easily
picked up and carried around by one person.

These days all brands of digitals use
similar technology and perform similarly
to other brands in the same price range.
It would be hard today to buy a bad digital
piano with weighted keys. Any brand today
that costs between 1000.00-1500.00 new is
going to be a high quality instrument that
will be almost equivalent in performance to
an acoustic. The prices have come down so
much and the technology is improving
so rapidly that it probably isn't even
worthwhile to get a used digital these days,
but if you do, you shouldn't be paying
any more that about 700.00 maximum for one,
even if it originally cost much more.

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Re: Clavinova Digital #668239
09/04/05 07:30 PM
09/04/05 07:30 PM
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 374
H
hawk85 Offline
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Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 374
Some more info. According to Yamaha's websites, the CVP-10 was introduced in 1987 and weighs approximately 170 pounds. Here is a link to the manual:

http://www2.yamaha.co.jp/manual/pdf/emi/english/cla/CVP10E.PDF

Re: Clavinova Digital #668240
09/04/05 07:33 PM
09/04/05 07:33 PM
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 26
rhode island
stephenm52 Offline
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Posts: 26
rhode island
Sorry forgot to include the link to the owners manual but hawk85 did. frown

Re: Clavinova Digital #668241
09/04/05 07:58 PM
09/04/05 07:58 PM
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 374
H
hawk85 Offline
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Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 374
It appears that stephenm52 and I are thinking along similar lines. The P-120 is about $1,200 and the P-250 is about $2,000. The weights are approx. 41 lbs. and 71 lbs. respectively. Additionally, there is a new Yamaha P-140 that is reported to be available in October. According to current information, it replaces the P-120. Here are some links for Yamaha products, including the new P-140.

http://www.yamaha.com/yamahavgn/CDA/Home/YamahaHome/

http://www.yamahasynth.com/

Re: Clavinova Digital #668242
09/05/05 01:58 PM
09/05/05 01:58 PM
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 8,483
Ohio, USA
signa Offline
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Posts: 8,483
Ohio, USA
don't buy any digital more than 8-10 years old, because it is toooooooo old!

for portability and action, Yamaha p120 sounds like a better idea for your purpose. p250 would be too heavy to move around though.

Re: Clavinova Digital #668243
09/05/05 02:30 PM
09/05/05 02:30 PM
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 6
Sugar Land, TX
L
ljoyce Offline OP
Junior Member
ljoyce  Offline OP
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L

Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 6
Sugar Land, TX
There is a Roland F100 on ebay right now. How do we feel about this model, and how much do you think it is worth?
http://cgi.ebay.com/Roland-F-100-Di...0637QQcategoryZ85860QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Any thoughts? would be greatly appreciated!

Re: Clavinova Digital #668244
09/05/05 03:48 PM
09/05/05 03:48 PM
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 4,534
G
Gyro Offline
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Posts: 4,534
500.00 is way too much for this. The styling
indicates an old model. Something like this
is not worth more than 75.00, if that.

You can get a brand new stage piano type
of digital that will be vastly superior
in every way for about the same price.

Re: Clavinova Digital #668245
09/05/05 03:58 PM
09/05/05 03:58 PM
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 4,534
G
Gyro Offline
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 4,534
Sorry, that Roland does seem to be
a current model.

Re: Clavinova Digital #668246
09/05/05 04:05 PM
09/05/05 04:05 PM
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 4,534
G
Gyro Offline
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Gyro  Offline
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 4,534
This model sells for around 1400.00 new,
but I would not go much over 500.00 on it
since you can get brand new pianos of
comparable performance for about 1000.00
new.

Re: Clavinova Digital #668247
09/05/05 04:42 PM
09/05/05 04:42 PM
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 6
Sugar Land, TX
L
ljoyce Offline OP
Junior Member
ljoyce  Offline OP
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L

Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 6
Sugar Land, TX
What comparable models sell for $1,000? I like the attached pedal on this model. Most have the "accessory" pedal which I'm afraid would just "get in the way". I so appreciate your input!

Re: Clavinova Digital #668248
09/05/05 05:19 PM
09/05/05 05:19 PM
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 4,534
G
Gyro Offline
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 4,534
I was specifically referring to the Casio
AP-45/AP-38 which sells for around 1000.00
new. This is an upright style with 3 built-in
pedals. I bought a Casio AP-31, 4 mos. ago
new on the internet for 700.00, and I'm
very satisfied with it and use it to play
the most advanced classical pieces including
concertos--its weighted keyboard is
especially good, almost indistinguishable
from an acoustic, and the grand piano
sampling (sound) is very good too; this
is a digital that is essentially equivalent
to an acoustic. The AP-45/AP-31 would be
similar but is a higher quality model so
I'm sure it must be very good.

Re: Clavinova Digital #668249
09/05/05 09:34 PM
09/05/05 09:34 PM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 388
ProPianoGuyBC Offline
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ProPianoGuyBC  Offline
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 388
The Roland F-100 has a sound and feature set that is comparable to Digital pianos that retail for $2500 Canadian.

Gyro, I admire your enthusiasm for the Casio Digital piano, but at $500, the F-100 is a great value. Its touch and sound far exceed anything available in the Casio model range.

I just don't like the E-Bay dynamic. Thats just me.

PPBC

Re: Clavinova Digital #668250
09/05/05 11:40 PM
09/05/05 11:40 PM
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 4,534
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Gyro Offline
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 4,534
Another important consideration is that an
upright-style digital takes up a surprising
amout of space. The essential dimensions
of it are the same as an acoustic
upright, although the compact design
of it doesn't reveal this at first glance,
so it takes up the same amt. of floor space
as an acoustic upright. In a college
dorm room or a small studio apt. this can be
a major consideration--it would simply be
too large for the standard 2-person college
dorm room. This is why many college students
go for the lightweight, portable stage piano
style, since this can be quickly disassembled
and stored under the bed. The upright style,
at 70+ lbs. for the keyboard unit alone, is
too heavy to disassemble and store away every day.

Re: Clavinova Digital #668251
09/06/05 10:55 AM
09/06/05 10:55 AM
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 6
Sugar Land, TX
L
ljoyce Offline OP
Junior Member
ljoyce  Offline OP
Junior Member
L

Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 6
Sugar Land, TX
Well, I really do like the AP38. I like the fact that this "uprightlook a-likes" are more "substatial" than a keyboard, per se. But the small one bedroom apartment is an issue to consider. That's why I like the Roland F100. I like the concept of the built in pedals. Which "stage piano" style do you like best, that has the built in pedals, at least 64 poly, of course 88 hammer weighted keys, $1000.00 or less (preferably, please God!), the most authentic grand piano sound, not necessary to have all the computer jazz................. Geez, I suspect her piano teacher would have a fit if she knew we were buying her an electronic piano. She is such an accoustic grand piano snob!!!!

Re: Clavinova Digital #668252
09/06/05 10:58 AM
09/06/05 10:58 AM
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 6
Sugar Land, TX
L
ljoyce Offline OP
Junior Member
ljoyce  Offline OP
Junior Member
L

Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 6
Sugar Land, TX
Oh by the way, the F100 sold on Ebay for $835.00 last night! It was 1.5 yrs old. Still had a 2 year warranty left on it. I dunno, maybe I should have gone for it????? Except, then add $165.00 for shipping on to that!!!

Re: Clavinova Digital #668253
09/06/05 12:36 PM
09/06/05 12:36 PM
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 4,534
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Gyro Offline
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You can get several models of the stage piano
type of digital for under 1000.00. These have
the same weighted keys and grand piano sampling
of the upright type, but in a lightweight, portable
design. These are sold with the keyboard itself
as a separate unit--there is no fitted stand,
no built-in pedals, and no bench, unless the dealer
is offering some kind of package deal with
stand, pedal, and bench included.
Ordinarily you'll need to buy the
stand, detachable pedal, and bench
separately. You don't give up much
with the stage piano type, these also
sound and feel just like an acoustic--
but here you gain ease of portablility
but lose that solid feel of sitting
at something with a fitted stand
and built-in pedals. There are many models
at around 1000.00 or less, that have weighted
keys and grand piano sampling. Here are just
a few (these are approx. prices for the
keyboard alone): Casio PX-100, 500.00; Casio
PX-300, 600.00; Casio PX-400R, 800.00;
Korg SP-300, 1000.00; Yamaha P60, 750.00;
M-Audio ProKeys 88, 600.00. (Note: you
don't really need 64 voice polyphony; no human
pianist can play fast enough so that
32 voice polyphony can't handle his playing.)

That Roland F-100 is a neat looking piano,
but I think 1000.00 with shipping is too
much to pay for a used one--he claims
he only played on it for 8 hrs., but he
could have been pounding on it for a
whole yr.; the photos suggest a piano
that has had continuous usage. I personally
would not pay more than 700.00 total for
any used digital, no matter how much it
originally cost--I base this on the Casio
AP-31 that I bought new for 700.00 total
4 mos. ago, and which can hold its own
against an acoustic in sound and touch.

Re: Clavinova Digital #668254
09/06/05 02:11 PM
09/06/05 02:11 PM
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 1,820
NJ
S
SteveY Offline
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NJ
Quote
(Note: you
don't really need 64 voice polyphony; no human
pianist can play fast enough so that
32 voice polyphony can't handle his playing.)
This posts lacks a complete unawareness of how polyphony works. I'd recommend that those interested in learning more about polyphony do a search on this board. This subject has been discussed in detail a number of times.


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