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MIDI Implementation on Yamaha P90/P120 #665602
03/18/05 01:14 AM
03/18/05 01:14 AM
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 12
C
cmwck Offline OP
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cmwck  Offline OP
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 12
Hi,
I was just wondering for all you people there who own the Yamaha P90 or P120 if they have a decent midi implementation.

Two specific things:
1. Are all the keys capable of transmiting MIDI velocity data in the range of 1 to 127? I've heard that some keyboards won't go above 100.
2. Do they transmit sustain pedal data in the full continuous range of 1 to 127?

THanks,
-C.

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Re: MIDI Implementation on Yamaha P90/P120 #665603
03/18/05 07:48 AM
03/18/05 07:48 AM
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Posts: 43
Longmont, Colorado
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Hen3ry Offline
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You can download the user's manual from Yamaha's Website at:
Yamaha P-90

I believe it may address your question.

Kevin

Re: MIDI Implementation on Yamaha P90/P120 #665604
03/18/05 08:57 AM
03/18/05 08:57 AM
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Posts: 1,820
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SteveY Offline
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I'd be surprised if the P120 doesn't transmit full velocity (0-127). Although I actually tested a Disklavier a few years ago -- it maxed out at around 100. I've heard similar reports regarding the GranTouch.
I'm pretty sure the sustain data is only on/off although I'm not sure (I don't own a P120 or P90).


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Re: MIDI Implementation on Yamaha P90/P120 #665605
03/18/05 09:46 AM
03/18/05 09:46 AM
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cmwck Offline OP
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cmwck  Offline OP
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Allright, looks good. The P90 does indeed transmit the full 0-127 range for note velocity, and the same for damper pedal. I would have assumed the later anyway, since "half-pedal" capability is listed as one of its features.

Edit: Nevermind, the P90 only has one pedal jack. This isn't going to work as I need soft pedal capability too. But, the action of the P90 and the P120 are identical, correct? So I could try out the action of a P90 and this would be what the P120 would feel like as well?

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Re: MIDI Implementation on Yamaha P90/P120 #665606
03/18/05 12:03 PM
03/18/05 12:03 PM
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JazzP120 Offline
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The P-120 transmits the full 0-127 range. The P-120's damper pedal (which is a "half" pedal) also transmits the full 0-127 range.

Chris

Re: MIDI Implementation on Yamaha P90/P120 #665607
03/18/05 01:06 PM
03/18/05 01:06 PM
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Posts: 327
London
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cobs Offline
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Yes cmwck, P120 and P90 have exactly the same key feel.


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Re: MIDI Implementation on Yamaha P90/P120 #665608
01/31/06 12:58 PM
01/31/06 12:58 PM
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 148
Australia
ine-kpro... Offline
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ine-kpro...  Offline
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Australia
ok this is confusing, we have people that say the p60-90-120 have midi problems and only output midi capped at 100 velocity. so regardless of what the manual says, do these keyboards have midi problems.

is there a way around this, like by putting the touch sensitivity on light maybe?


*** watch this space ***
ine-kpro... (eye-yen-kay pro)
www.ine-kpro.com
www.hiendproductions.ine-kpro.com
Re: MIDI Implementation on Yamaha P90/P120 #665609
01/31/06 08:04 PM
01/31/06 08:04 PM
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Posts: 138
Xenon Offline
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Xenon  Offline
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Yes you can put it on light, but its hard to go very far over 100. The rationale behind this is that the P120/90 are meant to imitate real pianos, and as with a real piano you should always be able to get a louder sound, the louder you strike the keys. Or so I've been told. So you'll probably never be hitting anything above 115-120 on these instruments.

Now I've heard there are ways to get around this. Unfortunately I don't quite remember what it was. Something involing external equipment though. Hopefully, someone else here can fill you in on that.

Re: MIDI Implementation on Yamaha P90/P120 #665610
01/31/06 09:03 PM
01/31/06 09:03 PM
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Posts: 148
Australia
ine-kpro... Offline
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Australia
has anyone ever been able to produce a 0 and a 127 velocity at the same time on different keys on the midi output of a p60-90-120 keyboard without having to do two adjustment on the keyboard per each velocity.

eg. change the touch setting to light to obtain 127 velocity, but the lowest youll get is 27.
then change the touch settings to hard to get 0 velocity but the highest velocity you get is only 100.

so basically the dynamic resolution of the p60-90-120 is only 100? does that mean that the full motion of a key press is only 100 velocity steps. so medium hitting the keys would only mean that it is the same velocity as maximum hard hitting the keys.


*** watch this space ***
ine-kpro... (eye-yen-kay pro)
www.ine-kpro.com
www.hiendproductions.ine-kpro.com
Re: MIDI Implementation on Yamaha P90/P120 #665611
02/02/06 05:15 PM
02/02/06 05:15 PM
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 4,683
San Francisco
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FogVilleLad Offline
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Quote
cmwck wrote,
This isn't going to work as I need soft pedal capability too.
Why the need for "soft"? If you're thinking of using third-party samples, I haven't seen any of the big libraries advertised to include a separate soft (una corda) sample set.

Re: MIDI Implementation on Yamaha P90/P120 #665612
02/02/06 05:19 PM
02/02/06 05:19 PM
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San Francisco
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FogVilleLad Offline
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Quote
Xenon wrote,
The rationale behind this is that the P120/90 are meant to imitate real pianos, and as with a real piano you should always be able to get a louder sound, the louder you strike the keys.
At the heavier strike levels, the difference can be as much or more a difference of timbre as it is volume. Some acoustics, such as the Bluthners, just flat don't like being slammed. Try it, and they'll shriek at you;-) Others, such as Grotrians, will maintain a more consistent timbre.

Re: MIDI Implementation on Yamaha P90/P120 #665613
02/02/06 05:26 PM
02/02/06 05:26 PM
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FogVilleLad Offline
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Quote
ine-kpro wrote,
eg. change the touch setting to light to obtain 127 velocity, but the lowest youll get is 27.
then change the touch settings to hard to get 0 velocity but the highest velocity you get is only 100.
When I bought ArtVista's Virtual Grand and played it with my Bachmann, I was amazed at the dynamic range it offered, and especially the subtle variations in the softer strike levels. I knew about Yammy's upper velocity limit (frustrating for this P80 owner), but didn't realize until reading your post that they also had a problem at the lower end. Thank you.

Re: MIDI Implementation on Yamaha P90/P120 #665614
02/03/06 10:39 AM
02/03/06 10:39 AM
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Caledon ON, Canada
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Rodney Offline
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I'm a little confused by this thread (anfd another) where posters seem to think that the midi range available on yamaha's digital piano line is buggy or flawed and this is nonesense. The midi velocity limits are matched to the tone generator and sample library programming that are built in to these boards. These keyboards are NOT midi master controller and no-where will you find Yamaha pitching them as such. In other words, while they are capable of sending midi events to the midi out/through (like all modern digital keyboards) this doesn't make them suitable for every midi application. That's the role of master controllers and Yamaha makes an excellent line (the S series) that fits this bill very nicely. Obviously the velocity curves on the P series are matched to their internal voicing and not to a general midi implementation (after all these are sold as all-in-one digital pianos).

I suggest that if you are interested in a good quality master controller with excellent piano voices, then the Yamaha S90ES, the Roland RD700SX, or the Kawai MP4/8 are much better fits. Workstations such as the Yamaha Mo8/ES8, Roland Fantom X8, Alesis Fusion8, Korg Oasis, etc would also fit but at a heftier price point.

Rodney

Re: MIDI Implementation on Yamaha P90/P120 #665615
02/03/06 06:34 PM
02/03/06 06:34 PM
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 148
Australia
ine-kpro... Offline
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Australia
rodney, thats a little bit useless from my perspective. having the midi output on the p90 matched to output midi to another P90 only limits the keyboards expandibility. this hasnt even been proven whether what you say is true that the midi is setup for the p90s own midi tone generator and sample library programming.

if you can slave p90 with another p90 and it is equal to playing the p90 unlslaved, meaning using its own keyboard, then that may be the case. or if you record the midi output of the p90 to a sequencer and play it back using the p90 as a sound module, does it play the same way as when you played the p90s onboard sounds with its own keyboard, if that is true then you are right that the midi output matches how the p90 is handled by it's own keyboard.

the role that I thought was for any midi output on any keyboard device was for expandability to be able to use it with other modules, sequencers etc. and not be stuck with the sounds built in on the keyboard. yamaha has been around for a long time, why would they change the way midi output works unless they have made a bug on the unit. making a midi output limitted to match only a few module defeats the purpose of having a midi output.

its like having a cd burner than can burn cds but the burnt cds can only be played on that same cd burner that burnt it or the same model cd burner.


*** watch this space ***
ine-kpro... (eye-yen-kay pro)
www.ine-kpro.com
www.hiendproductions.ine-kpro.com
Re: MIDI Implementation on Yamaha P90/P120 #665616
02/03/06 08:24 PM
02/03/06 08:24 PM
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FogVilleLad Offline
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Quote
Rodney posted,
These keyboards are NOT midi master controller[s].... [T]he velocity curves on the P series are matched to their internal voicing and not to a general midi implementation (after all these are sold as all-in-one digital pianos).
OK I understand now. What took you so long;-)


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