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I am looking for digital piano that sounds and feels closest to acoustic piano. I've been playing on acoustics for 10 years now and would have bought an acoustic if I wasn't living in the dorm. I don't care about the bells and whistles. Only need it to be a piano replacement. I was considering Yamaha P60, P90, P120, P250 and Roland FP2, FP5 and RD700. What are the differences between the P series. I heard that the actions in all the P series are all the same. If that's the case, I should just get the cheapest among all...will that be correct? And which has a closer acoustic feel? Yamaha or Roland? Since, I only need it as a piano, I don't want to pay more just because the keyboard has more of those fancy stuff. I've only tried rd700 so far and like the feel and sound, but I feel that I'm paying more for the "extra fancy stuff" that I will end up not using and hence find it a waste of money. Any suggestions?
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you should look at the polyphony on each Yamaha model. Yamaha P60 only has something like 32 polyphony which is not enough at all (especially for one with acoustic experience). most better/high end digital pianos should have 128 polyphony. Roland might have different standard for polyphony.
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I'm looking into something with 64 polyphony. I think it should be sufficient.
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I'm not experienced with the differences among the pianos. Probably just a matter of features. If you're just aiming for as similar to an accoustic as possible, who cares about many features, right? Of course besides polyphony. Anyway, have you tried to Yamahas? I personally felt that the Yamahas were too "spongy" (in the feel of playing the keys) and not as near to an accoustic as other brands. Just my experience. But of course, it's all up to your individual touch...
I was most impressed with the Technics brand for being as close to an accoustic as possible.
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I'll add my two cents re polyphony. I practice on a Yamaha GranTouch piano (a real grand action with a sampled sound). My piano has 32 note polyphony and I _never_ felt I was in any way limited. I'm sure someone can came up with one or two musicial situations where 32 note polyphony is not enough but I am hard pressed to come up with even one example.
Yamaha AvantGrand N1X | Roland RD 2000 | Sennheiser HD 598 headphones
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I dunno Dave. I've played the GranTouch. The sound was mediocre, as was the action. And the polyphony situation was almost unworkable. It's no wonder Yamaha quit marketing in the US.
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Frankly, I don't know much about the polyphony stuff. I just heard that with less polyphony, you run out of notes when you play fast songs. So, for fast songs like the flight of the bumble bee by Rimski Korsakov, how many polyphony do you need to play it? Because, given my skill now, I don't think I can play any songs faster than that. As long as the piano has sufficient polyphony to be able to play that song, I'm satisfied. Aside from the polyphony stuff, what's the difference between the P series. And any opinions on which is better, yamaha or roland?
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Originally posted by SteveY: I dunno Dave. I've played the GranTouch. The sound was mediocre, as was the action. And the polyphony situation was almost unworkable. It's no wonder Yamaha quit marketing in the US. Did you listen to the sound through headphones? I can honestly say the sample in the GranTouch is the _best_ sample I have ever heard. (I also just bought the P250 and I still prefer the sample in the GranTouch.) Re polyphony and your claim that 32 note polyphony was 'almost unworkable' I really wonder how honest you are being. I have __never__ encountered a situation in real live playing where 32 note polyphony posed any limitation. (Perhaps you could pass on which specific measures in which specific pieces caused you to use the 'almost unworkable' comment re 32 note polyphony.) The action in the GranTouch is the same action from (as I've been told) their six foot model. I have had the key dip made greater on mine as I prefer a key dip that is greater than regulation. (The key dip on the GT1 is regulation.) The sound through the internal speakers (in the GT1) is OK but there is no EQ whatsoever. I run my GT1 through my home stereo and turn up the bass for a little extra bass support. The piano sounds excellent through headphones. Re the marketing of the GranTouch in the US, I've exchanged e-mails with a top Yamaha guy in the US re just that. I was informed that a great percentage of buyers of pianos (in the US) do not actually play the piano (amazing, huh?) and the souped up version of the GranTouch (adding the disklavier\electronic player piano) was more to their liking and generated more sales. The 'basic GranTouch (GT1 and GT2) offer no bells or whistles - just a piano sound. So, what are the pieces where 32 note polyphony poses a limitation for you?
Yamaha AvantGrand N1X | Roland RD 2000 | Sennheiser HD 598 headphones
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<<<I just heard that with less polyphony, you run out of notes when you play fast songs.>>>
Use the sustain pedal and play _33_ notes to see if you can hear 1 note drop out ... or play 35 notes to see if you can hear 3 notes drop out.
You will have a time limit as after about 7 or 8 seconds the initial note will fade to below audible level. Also, your choice of notes will matter - if you choose the 32 notes poorly (with the sustain pedal down) the cacophony will be worse than the 32 note polyphony limitation.
OK gentlemen, start your engines .....
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Dave,
You are the proof of my earlier arguments. The more time you spend playing your Gran Touch the less objective you are about it's limitations. Try playing nothing but real pianos for the next 6 months. Then I might have more respect for your opinion.
Ryan
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i used to have a keyboard with 32 polyphony and the sound sometime cut off easily because of it. i wouldn't consider anything with polyphony less than 64!
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Someone correct me if I'm wrong but it seems to me that polyphony is an even greater issue with the type of keyboard that has an accompaniment feature, such as the CVP models, or where you have a recorder feature. All the notes, drums, etc. being played while you were playing could quickly use up your polyphony.
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Poor poster getting lost in the flames!
To answer the original question: Yamaha action is heavier than Rolands, but both are pretty realistic, so go with whatever you're used to.
64 voice polyphony is probably the lowest you want to go. The P90 and up have it. I'm not sure about the Rolands, but certainly all the higher level ones will have it.
Even though I thought I wouldn't use any bells and whistles, I almost immediately started layering piano with slow strings - which is fun for some songs and as simple as pressing 2 buttons at once.
My favorite sound was the P250, but I only compared it to the P120 and the Roland FP-5. Nothing compares exactly to a true acoustic (even a crappy one - the idiosyncracies add something undefinable), but I'm enjoying the P250 immensely regardless and would recommend it without reservation.
But the P90 sounds like it would meet your needs (no speakers, though)
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Er, missed poster's second post.
Yamaha's P series -all the same action -P90 upwards all have 64 voice polyphony (P250 has 128, but that's probably not necessary) -P90 and P120 are almost identical except that the P90 has no speakers. (There seems to be a consensus that the P90 might have a slightly better sound, but I can't verify that personally) -P250 sounds slightly better than P120, IMO
The only Roland I compared to was the FP-5. The piano was more mellow/duller/not-as-bright (trying to find neutral adjectives) and the touch was lighter. Some people prefer it, but I didn't... so try both before making your choice.
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Originally posted by ryan: Dave,
You are the proof of my earlier arguments. The more time you spend playing your Gran Touch the less objective you are about it's limitations. Try playing nothing but real pianos for the next 6 months. Then I might have more respect for your opinion.
Ryan I bought a Yamaha 48" upright in 1971 and sold that about 20 years later. I rehearsed on a seven foot Steinway for 20+ years (1975 - 1995), bought a six foot Yamaha around 1990 and traded that in about six years ago when I bought my GranTouch 1. Have I earned your respect now? Have I logged in enough time on acoustic pianos? I'm still waiting to hear the specific pieces and the specific measures where you feel 32 note polyphony is not adequate. tick, tick, tick, tick.....
Yamaha AvantGrand N1X | Roland RD 2000 | Sennheiser HD 598 headphones
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Originally posted by jazpianizt: Someone correct me if I'm wrong but it seems to me that polyphony is an even greater issue with the type of keyboard that has an accompaniment feature, such as the CVP models, or where you have a recorder feature. All the notes, drums, etc. being played while you were playing could quickly use up your polyphony. If you're going to layer a piano sound with strings for example, you will double the number of notes you play (from the computer's point of view). Just playing a piano sound, it seems to me that 32 note polyphony is more than enough. Polyphony becomes an issue when you start layering sounds or sequencing other parts to sound at the same time you are playing. (In real time piano playing I'm still waiting for 32 notes _not_ to be enough. You have to hold the sustain pedal down for quite a while or gliss a lot of notes. I think some people get caught up in numbers and lose track of what happens in the real world.)
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Apparently, some 32-note polyphony keyboards will only produce half that number of notes if the sound is in stereo, although this by no means apply to all keyboards. Please correct me if I am wrong. I think 32 notes is enough for almost all solo piano pieces I can think of. Sinequannone, your example of the flight of the bumble bee will not go anywhere close to 32-note or even 16-note polyphony because although the notes are played very quickly they do not overlap. When I try keyboards with 32-note polyphony, I use the the passage involving a white-keyed glissando from Ravel's Ondine. One puts the damper pedal down and glissandos from the lowest C to the top A of the keyboard, more than 32 notes in all. I admit I cannot think of many other passages like that in the piano solo literature. However, if you start layering with strings, and adding accompaniments, then 32-note will run out pretty quickly. If the keyboard is only capable of sounding 16 notes at any of time (in stereo), then that's pretty insufficient. I can think of many passages in Debussy, or Rachmaninoff, or Liszt that requires more than 16 notes to be sounded at any one point in time.
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Originally posted by Dave Horne: I bought a Yamaha 48" upright in 1971 and sold that about 20 years later. I rehearsed on a seven foot Steinway for 20+ years (1975 - 1995), bought a six foot Yamaha around 1990 and traded that in about six years ago when I bought my GranTouch 1. Have I earned your respect now? Have I logged in enough time on acoustic pianos?
I'm still waiting to hear the specific pieces and the specific measures where you feel 32 note polyphony is not adequate. Nope, in fact you lost it even more. You have been logging most of your time on your Gran Touch for the past 6 years. Switch back to the grand piano for 6 months and then we can talk. I already answered your question about which pieces 32 notes were not sufficient. I cited some specific works (Chopin's Etudes and Rachmaninoff's Preludes), but as I think back this was a severe limitation in everything I played.
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Ryan, I didn't get the exact measures where you were severely limited with 32 note polyphony. Perhaps you answered and I skipped over your answer.
(To put my ... attitude in perspective, I have made my living in music as a performer. I don't sit behind a desk during the week and play as a hobby, it's been my primary source of income for most almost all of my adult life. I, of course, am not diminishing those who sit behind a desk and approach music as a hobby, I'm just putting it perspective from _my_ point of view. I retired at 44, 10 years ago, am still perform several times per month and, interestingly enough, have never felt limited with 32 note polyphony.)
I have worked through a handful of Chopin etudes and have never come across any situation where 32 note polyphony was inadequate. I would love to hear which specific measures in which specific etudes you are referring to. Is it possible for you to be specific?
So, which specific etudes and which specific measures? Indulge me.
>>>> I already answered your question about which pieces 32 notes were not sufficient. I cited some specific works (Chopin's Etudes and Rachmaninoff's Preludes), but as I think back this was a severe limitation in everything I played.<<<<
My eyesight must be failing me ... just provide a link ... or CTRL + C and repeat the information for my benefit.
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<<<Apparently, some 32-note polyphony keyboards will only produce half that number of notes if the sound is in stereo, although this by no means apply to all keyboards. Please correct me if I am wrong.>>>
You wrote 'apparently' ... which pianos are you referring to?
32 note polyphony means just that ... 32 notes.
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