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#663359 - 07/16/08 02:29 AM Spilt Milk On A Digital Piano  
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trillingadventurer Offline
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Hi All,

My student spilled some milk on her digital piano. (Yes, I know there should never be any food or drinks near a piano, but sometimes there just IS!) It was, of course, immediately affected. It happened on the lower keys and one of the bass notes began to sustain forever without the key even being pressed down. When I played another key, a moment later, it sounded like two or three keys were playing at the same time. Any suggestions on how this can be fixed. Can it be fixed at all? Or did she break her instrument. In other words, shall we all cry over this spilt milk?


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#663360 - 07/16/08 07:15 AM Re: Spilt Milk On A Digital Piano  
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Daniel.L Offline
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Hi

I'm not an expert, but as you probably know fluids and electronics does not go hand in hand. If you are lucky I guess it might be possible to just open it up and clean it with use some kind of alchol-based fluid.

I don't recommend you to do this yourself though. You should probably leave the piano to some certified "piano fixer".

Regards
/Daniel

#663361 - 07/16/08 11:22 AM Re: Spilt Milk On A Digital Piano  
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Eternal Offline
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This is for future reference. Whenever you spill something - as long as the power was off, you have a very good chance of getting away with it.

Don't turn the power on - make sure you clean up the spill. If it was just water, then drying it is sufficient (you can use hair dryer - just don't set to heat, or condensed air in cans they sell at computer stoers). If it was some other fluid - like salt water, or milk like in this example - you not only need to dry the instrument, but also get rid of the sediment. You can do it with water as well - just make sure you dry it all after you're done.

Unfortunately in your case, it seems as you turned the instrument on after the spill. That's a big no-no. But what's done is done (no point in crying over spilled milk smile ) - there still may be hope of saving the piano. Open it up, and clean up the spill really good. If you're lucky the milk was simply occluding optical sensors. It could also be just shorting some integrated circuits - again - if you're lucky it was just across signal lines, and not power.

Cleaning it up is the first step.

#663362 - 07/16/08 04:20 PM Re: Spilt Milk On A Digital Piano  
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sieg66 Offline
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paris
"Unfortunately in your case, it seems as you turned the instrument on after the spill"

In my opinion it was allready ON laugh

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#663363 - 07/16/08 05:16 PM Re: Spilt Milk On A Digital Piano  
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LesCharles73 Offline
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Since nothing went POP I think just cleaning around and under the keys will get you out of trouble. If the piano has those little rubber buttons under each key, be sure to lift them off and clean underneath. They should just press in and out.


Les C Deal




#663364 - 07/17/08 10:16 AM Re: Spilt Milk On A Digital Piano  
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TimR Offline
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As long as there is no power - no power at all, even a battery - in an electronic device, distilled water does it no harm and can be used to clean it.

Just be sure it is completely !completely! dry before putting on power again.

Milk isn't that easy to get off. Open it up as far as you can, get a spray bottle that adjusts from fog to stream, fill it with distilled water, have at it. I've done this with computers and got them working again, haven't tried with a keyboard.

You need distilled water because tap water is going to leave mineral deposits as it evaporates and some of them will be conductive.


gotta go practice
#663365 - 07/17/08 10:20 AM Re: Spilt Milk On A Digital Piano  
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cs_carver Offline
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No "pop" alone does not mean "no damage;" some electrical damage can happen silently.

Worse, milk may spoil, and that smell won't go away on its own. You may have to dismantle the keyboard to get at it, and even then, it might need an enzyme cleaner (the kind used for dog urine) to get rid of the last of the smell.

Good luck.

#663366 - 07/17/08 10:22 AM Re: Spilt Milk On A Digital Piano  
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cs_carver Offline
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Quote
As long as there is no power - no power at all, even a battery - in an electronic device,
IANAE, but I date one: Is there a gizmo on a circuit board that holds charge in the absence of a power supply? I'm thinking capacitor? Possible that the water won't change anything, until you touch it...

#663367 - 07/17/08 10:30 AM Re: Spilt Milk On A Digital Piano  
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bitWrangler Offline
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Quote
Originally posted by cs_carver:
Quote
As long as there is no power - no power at all, even a battery - in an electronic device,
IANAE, but I date one: Is there a gizmo on a circuit board that holds charge in the absence of a power supply? I'm thinking capacitor? Possible that the water won't change anything, until you touch it...
It would have to be a rather large cap to hold a charge for anything more than a few seconds.

The biggest problem here is that the liquid is milk, not water, which means that simply letting it "dry out" will likely still lead to other issues (sticky/non responsive keys, smell, rust, etc). The only real solution is to take that puppy apart and start cleaning (either yourself or someone who is more "qualified"). You could always let it dry for a week and give it a go and keep your fingers crossed, but depending on the value of the keyboard, this may be a situation where it's just simpler to sell the thing on craigslist as is and consider this a wonderful opportunity to upgrade smile I'm sure we're all looking forward to the OP's student's "I'm looking for a new digital piano, which one should I get" thread.

#663368 - 07/17/08 03:13 PM Re: Spilt Milk On A Digital Piano  
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LesCharles73 Offline
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The POP just being a general rule of thumb... Not always valid of course. Still, out of all the keyboards I have disassembled, I never found anything with mains electrical circuits near the keyboard. They're always further back. The circuit board under the keys (and possibly behind the keys) is a signal board and the things you should focus on most is that and contacts.


Les C Deal




#663369 - 07/17/08 07:57 PM Re: Spilt Milk On A Digital Piano  
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PlatonicSolid Offline
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Rather than repeat what's already been repeated (open it up and clean it - I'd use rubbing alcohol and q-tips) maybe someone can be of further assistance in the repair if you tell us exactly the make and model of the DP we're talking about.


Kurzweil K2600xs - yeah, it's purple :p , Alesis M1 Active MkII Monitors, [b]Roland RD-300s Restoration Project[/b] completed.
#663370 - 07/18/08 12:49 AM Re: Spilt Milk On A Digital Piano  
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Daniel.L Offline
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I'm not sure it's good doing it yourself. Doesnt the guarantee usually becomes invalidated if you do (if there still are any).

#663371 - 07/18/08 01:44 AM Re: Spilt Milk On A Digital Piano  
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WildWillie Offline
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Allright, I just wrote a huge response to this whole thing, thought the better of it and I'll shorten.

1. Any capacitors in your keyboard will hold a charge for at most a second or so after you turn it off. But: MAKE SURE THE KEYBOARD IS NOT ONLY TURNED OFF BUT UNPLUGGED AS WELL BEFORE YOU TRY ANYTHING!!!!!!!

2. If it was my keyboard, the very first thing I would do is pour an entire bottle of rubbing alcohol into it, preferably in the general vicinity of where the milk went in, swish it around as much as possible, and then pour it out. Then let it sit for a few hours for the remaining alcohol to evaporate. I will often repeat this sequence multiple times. I realize this may be difficult if this is a large digital piano, but with another person to help you could probably pull it off. You would not believe how many things I have fixed in this manner after spills like this (two electronic keyboards after beer dumps, numerous computer keyboards, at least 3 cell phones . . .). However, it doesn't always completely fix the problem, as some of the goo may be compressed in between contacts (common in computer keyboards with the big rubber membrane keyswitch matrices inside) and can't be simply rinsed out. Unquestionably worth a try though, and always my first option.

3. If this didn't work, or didn't completely fix it, then dissassembly and cleaning is your best chance. Use Q-tips ( see PlatonicSolid above) and do not spare the rubbing alcohol! It won't hurt anything, and it is a tremendous solvent. Distilled water is good, but nowhere near as good as isopropyl (rubbing) alcohol, IMHO. Think about it - a bottle of rubbing alcohol costs maybe $2 these days? How much did your student's keyboard cost?

Finally, trillingadventurer, if you and/or your student are uncomfortable with dissassembling the keyboard for cleaning, reply with your general location, and maybe myself or someone else can hook you up with a little help. Wouldn't hurt, as mentioned above, to state the make and model of the keyboard in question.

Good luck!


There is no "try"! Do, or do not. - Yoda
#663372 - 07/18/08 01:48 AM Re: Spilt Milk On A Digital Piano  
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WildWillie Offline
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And, Daniel.L, I'm pretty sure that dumping something in the keyboard is not covered under the warranty, unless one has purchased some sort of special full coverage package on the unit. And it's going to be hard to deny it when they open it up and the innards are full of rancid milk.

Which means you're going to pay for it to get it fixed regardless. This is one of the major reasons I'm a big fan of the whole bottle rubbing alcohol treatment - noninvasive!


There is no "try"! Do, or do not. - Yoda
#663373 - 07/18/08 07:31 AM Re: Spilt Milk On A Digital Piano  
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GregC Offline
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thats a big problem

I would spill coffee on it and make a nice cappuchino


GregC
#663374 - 07/19/08 09:55 AM Re: Spilt Milk On A Digital Piano  
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Ken Knapp Offline
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It really should be taken apart and cleaned. Unfortunately, it isn't for the faint of heart!

The problem is that the keys actuate switches that are comprised partly of traces on a circuit board. If the liquid causes corrosion you've got real problems.

Ken


Ken

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#663375 - 07/19/08 02:36 PM Re: Spilt Milk On A Digital Piano  
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Great news. She let it alone for a few days and turned it on and it's fine.

Whew!

Thanks everyone for your input and support


M. Katchur
#663376 - 07/21/08 08:24 AM Re: Spilt Milk On A Digital Piano  
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athomik Offline
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Quote
Originally posted by trillingadventurer:
Great news. She let it alone for a few days and turned it on and it's fine.

Whew!
You might be lucky, but there is a possibility that the milk residue will cause corrosion in the long term. At some point in the near future, it may be worth getting the affected parts thoroughly cleaned (using Isopropyl alcohol as suggested in previous posts). I have come across electronic instruments which seem to have worked for quite a long time after an accident before they exhibited any faults. By then, the fault was either fatal or repair was very expensive due to the amount of corrosion.


Adrian Thomas
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#663377 - 07/21/08 08:56 AM Re: Spilt Milk On A Digital Piano  
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tenders Offline
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Unlike soda, juice, tea, or coffee, milk does not seem like one of those things that would cause long-term corrosion. I could see the residue attracting dust or lint though.

#663378 - 07/21/08 11:30 AM Re: Spilt Milk On A Digital Piano  
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LesCharles73 Offline
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I could see the smell becoming a problem. Milk curdles.


Les C Deal




#663379 - 07/21/08 11:44 AM Re: Spilt Milk On A Digital Piano  
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I'd still try to clean it. Think of it this way - if you spilled milk underneath your fridge - you wouldn't just leave it there - would you?

#663380 - 07/21/08 08:40 PM Re: Spilt Milk On A Digital Piano  
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ginger_vitys Offline
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Put it on eBay and go buy a new model.

Years ago, I spilled a glass of beer into an ancient Korg clavinet. It promptly became thoroughly inebriated and refused to operate for about 3 days. It eventually got over the hangover. But milk... probably too gooey and probably will also smell bad for a while.


If you think education's expensive, try ignorance.
#663381 - 07/22/08 08:55 AM Re: Spilt Milk On A Digital Piano  
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GregC Offline
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Quote
Originally posted by trillingadventurer:
Great news. She let it alone for a few days and turned it on and it's fine.

Whew!

Thanks everyone for your input and support
you know what happens if you ignore toothaches that ' go away '


GregC
#663382 - 07/22/08 04:15 PM Re: Spilt Milk On A Digital Piano  
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Tony V Offline
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Quote
Originally posted by GregC:
you know what happens if you ignore toothaches that ' go away '
I don't. What does happen? I think walked off a few toothaches a few years ago...

#663383 - 07/22/08 09:24 PM Re: Spilt Milk On A Digital Piano  
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GregC Offline
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Quote
Originally posted by Tuan Vo:
Quote
Originally posted by GregC:
[b]you know what happens if you ignore toothaches that ' go away '
I don't. What does happen? I think walked off a few toothaches a few years ago... [/b]
in many cases, something worse


GregC

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