Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2.5 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
What's Hot!!
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
Forums RULES & HELP
-------------------
ADVERTISE on Piano World
(ad)
Piano Tuning
How to Tune Pianos
(125ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad)
Piano Buyer Guide
Piano Buyer Spring 2017
(ad)
4th Finger Enigma Resolved!
Schumann's 4th Finger Enigma Resolved!
Who's Online Now
62 registered members (ando, aph123, Adelheid, Automata, Bambers, andy250, 12 invisible), 770 guests, and 1 spider.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Quick Links to Useful Piano & Music Resources
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers

Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano & Music Accessories
*Live Piano Venues
*Music School Listings
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Directory/Site Map
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords & Scales
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
#661575 - 08/06/04 05:55 PM controller keyboard  
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 3
three-sixteen Offline
Junior Member
three-sixteen  Offline
Junior Member

Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 3
eureka CA
hi folks!

This is my first time here. I play at church every week with the Worship Team. I currently use a Fatar/Studiologic VMK-88 keyboard. But i dont like the action on it. I use my computer and Kontakt and sampled pianos (Steinway B, Bardstown Bosendorfer)so the keyboard does not have to have the best onboard sounds. Ive realized there are no great Midi Controllers with great hammer action, so i will have to spend a bit more to get a keyboard with onboard sounds and great action. So far i am thinking of the Yamaha P120 or the Kawai ES3. I dont need the P250 if it has the same action as the P120. Basically, i would some opinions of folks who have tried both the Kawai ES3 and the Yamaha P-series. Which action is better? Also, just for the heck of it, which of the two has a better Grand Piano sound (in case my computer breaks.)

Thanks in advance!!!!

(ad) ROLAND

Click Here

#661576 - 08/06/04 06:11 PM Re: controller keyboard  
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 1,820
SteveY Offline
1000 Post Club Member
SteveY  Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 1,820
NJ
The Roland A90, which is no longer a current model is a stand-alone MIDI controller with hammer action. You could pick one up used for under $1000. Also, M-Audio just announced a new MIDI controller with hammer action. Haven't tried it yet.

If you're looking for a keyboard with great piano sounds, consider the Roland RD700 with the Grand Piano expansion upgrade card. I'd take it over the options you listed. Or of course, you could try the new Fantom X8.


PianoWorld disclaimer: musician, producer, arranger, author, clinician, consultant, PS2 aficionado, secret agent...
#661577 - 08/06/04 06:26 PM Re: controller keyboard  
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 56
Tocca Offline
Full Member
Tocca  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 56
Sweden
I haven't tested any of theese, sorry. But i'm thinking about getting something to use with my PC.
I have a digital (a Kawai CA950) but it's a big heavy thing, so i'm considering something in the line of the Yamaha P120.

But from what i can tell, all the Yamaha Pxxx models have the same action?
The P60,P90,P120,P250...
The P60 might be just what i'm looking for myself, can be had for around $700! No need for lots of bells and whistles when i'll be using it with midi anyway.

The only thing missing on the Yamahas, in my view, is modwheels. But i found a great (free) software that can map joystick axes to modwheels! smile

BTW, which sampled pianosound do you like best?

#661578 - 08/06/04 06:39 PM Re: controller keyboard  
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,926
netizen Offline
1000 Post Club Member
netizen  Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,926
New York
Quote
Originally posted by three-sixteen:
hi folks!

This is my first time here. I play at church every week with the Worship Team. I currently use a Fatar/Studiologic VMK-88 keyboard. But i dont like the action on it. I use my computer and Kontakt and sampled pianos (Steinway B, Bardstown Bosendorfer)so the keyboard does not have to have the best onboard sounds. Ive realized there are no great Midi Controllers with great hammer action, so i will have to spend a bit more to get a keyboard with onboard sounds and great action. So far i am thinking of the Yamaha P120 or the Kawai ES3. I dont need the P250 if it has the same action as the P120. Basically, i would some opinions of folks who have tried both the Kawai ES3 and the Yamaha P-series. Which action is better? Also, just for the heck of it, which of the two has a better Grand Piano sound (in case my computer breaks.)

Thanks in advance!!!!
You might want to think about the Yamaha S08 and S80.

For knobs and slider and such you might think about the Evolution UC33e
link

I like it alot.

N.


"To announce that there must be no criticism of the president, or that
we are to stand by the president right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public."-- Theodore Roosevelt
(ad)
Piano & Music Accessories
piano accessories music gifts tuning and moving equipment
#661579 - 08/18/04 09:17 AM Re: controller keyboard  
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 62
lesecret Offline
Full Member
lesecret  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 62
Hi, I've tried both the Yamaha P series and the Kawai ES3. I definitely prefer the Yamaha action over the Kawai ES3 in terms of touch. Can't comment on the sound as I wasn't listening hard enough (the touch ranks higher on my priority list).
I tried Yamaha P-60, P-90, P-120 and P-250. They feel slightly different. The touch which I like best is P-90s. Soundwise, P-250 wins hands down; it has the sort of rich, sustained and inspiring sound you get from an acoustic concert grand, if not the range of color.

#661580 - 08/18/04 06:59 PM Re: controller keyboard  
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 80
TheVibeRAIDER Offline
Full Member
TheVibeRAIDER  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 80
SF Bay Area
3:16

FYI, the Yamaha P-120 only has I/O MIDI, instead of I/O/THRU MIDI.


1973 Baldwin Acrosonic (TRADED)
Kurzweil PC88-MX (SOLD)
Yamaha P-120
2013 Charles Walter 1520 QA.
#661581 - 08/19/04 08:49 AM Re: controller keyboard  
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,817
rintincop Offline
1000 Post Club Member
rintincop  Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,817
The Yamaha P actions are heavier than a real action, their downweight at middle C is around 74 grams and can be a problem for those who need to play very fast often and those with tendonitis. The Roland FP3, FP5 and RD700 all use a lighter and faster PA5 action. The FP8, FP1, RD600 and RD500 use a slightly bouncier PA4 action. I consider the Roland actions more similar to an acoustic piano action.


Casio PX-360 digital piano, Mojo 61 digital organ, 1966 Mason & Hamlin piano.
#661582 - 08/19/04 08:54 AM Re: controller keyboard  
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,817
rintincop Offline
1000 Post Club Member
rintincop  Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,817
Can you comment on how much of a legato phrasing the Bardstown Bosendorfer allows without pedal?
Do the notes have enough sustain to produce slurred phrasing? In ther words, is the sustain portion of each note loud and long enough so as to not be overshadowed by the volume attack of the note? Is there a mellow legato piano in the Bardstown?


Casio PX-360 digital piano, Mojo 61 digital organ, 1966 Mason & Hamlin piano.
#661583 - 08/19/04 09:36 AM Re: controller keyboard  
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 3
three-sixteen Offline
Junior Member
three-sixteen  Offline
Junior Member

Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 3
eureka CA
hey thanks guys for the feedback!

rintincop,
the bardstown is very realistic. It contains four velocity layers for each of the 88 notes, all recorded with the best equipment, and not altered with any compression, eq, etc---the raw samples. So the sustains as well are very realistic. It comes with one mellow piano variant that has been altered with a high pass filter i think.

Is the action of the Yamaha S80 a little lighter than the action of the P series?

I will look into the Rolands.

thanks again!

3:16

#661584 - 08/19/04 10:54 AM Re: controller keyboard  
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 62
lesecret Offline
Full Member
lesecret  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 62
Thank you all for your replies.

I have the chance to try several Korg, Kurzweil and Roland keyboards today. Of the Korg I like the touch of SP300 best, though a Kurzweil fared better. Also tried a Roland. Overall, I found all the keyboards too light. I don't remember the Yamaha P series being that light.

I'm going to use the keyboard as a practice instrument and would prefer a heavier keyboard with greater resistance - better workout for the fingers.

Thanks for the information, Ritincop. Looks like I should be making a beeline for one of the Yamaha. I'll test the S series pianos again.

#661585 - 08/19/04 12:16 PM Re: controller keyboard  
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,817
rintincop Offline
1000 Post Club Member
rintincop  Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,817
I am switching to a Roland PA5 action (FP3, FP5, RD700). I am required to improvise at very fast tempos for long periods of time and the Yamaha actions are too stressfull on my hands because they require so much pressure to play. The down weight at middle C on the Yamaha P action is aboyt 74 grams. My acoustic piano with the pedal depress is about 45 grams and 58 grams without pedal.

If you never suffer from tendonitis and don't have to play fast for long eriods then the Yamaha actions offer the best dynamic control. I am going to sacrfaice some dynamic control for the health of my tendons.


Casio PX-360 digital piano, Mojo 61 digital organ, 1966 Mason & Hamlin piano.
#661586 - 08/20/04 09:00 AM Re: controller keyboard  
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 62
lesecret Offline
Full Member
lesecret  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 62
I see.
Just out of curiosity, what make is your acoustic piano?
I've yet to experience tendonitis and I'm quite obsessed with developing finger strength. LOL If I have a difficult piano to practise on, then I'll find it easy when I have to play an acoustic grand.


Moderated by  Piano World 

Piano Acc. & Gift Items in
Piano World's Online Store
In PianoSupplies.com ,(a division of Piano World)
our online store for piano and music gifts and accessories, Digital Piano Dolly, party goods, tuning equipment, piano moving equipment, benches, lamps Caster Cups and more.


Free Shipping* on Jansen Artist Piano Benches, Cocoweb Piano Lamps, Hidrau Hydraulic Piano Benches
(*free shipping within contiguous U.S. only)
(ad)
Pearl River & Ritmuller
Pearl River Pianos
(ad)
Pianoteq
PianoTeq 6 Out now
(ad)
Lindeblad Piano
Lindeblad Piano Restorations and sales
ad
Pierce Piano Atlas


New Topics - Multiple Forums
Bechstein Digital update 1.1.0 released
by Grazilerimba. 10/19/17 06:03 AM
Free piano ebook for review
by jjjkay. 10/18/17 10:46 PM
Free piano ebook for review
by jjjkay. 10/18/17 10:39 PM
Corrosion on Plate
by Bob. 10/18/17 08:11 PM
European Piano Party 2018 in Germany?
by patH. 10/18/17 05:26 PM
Forum Statistics
Forums44
Topics182,366
Posts2,665,586
Members88,990
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
(ad)
Accu-Tuner
Sanderson Accu-Tuner
Check It Out!
There's a lot more to Piano World than just the forums.
Click Here to
Explore The Rest of Piano World!!
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers


 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter |


copyright 1997 - 2017 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.0