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I hope there is someone out there who can help me. As part of my recent downsizing into an apartment, I had to, with great sadness, sell my Steinway baby grand which I had been playing for over 30 years.

I devoted a month to shopping for a digital to replace my Steinway. After reading everything on- line and trying out every model I could locate, I identified the Roland FP-7 as the piano for me.

Brought it home and loved playing it - loved the way it performed, the sound, the look. For about 4 days. Then the pain in my hands, especially my left, became overwhelming. I stopped playing a week ago today - thinking I just needed some "recovery" time. When the pain hadn't abated at all by Tuesday, I returned it to the store.

I'm just beside myself, not knowing what to do. Has anyone else run into hand pain when switching from acoustic to electric? How long will it take for this pain in my hands to go away? I hope this is not permanent. By the way, my fingers are just fine.

Meanwhile, the store, Guitar Center, is sort of "holding" it for me - with all of us hoping my pain will go away. (Great Customer Service!)

The immediate plan is for me to buy the Roland again when my pain is gone and bring it home for another 14 day period (during which it can still be returned if the pain returns).

In retrospect, I now know I shouldn't have played it 4 hours the first day I had it. But how should I transition to an digital?

Is my problem related to this particular Roland? OR am I likely to have problems with all digitals?

I never once experienced hand pain in all the years I played the Steinway. My usual pattern was to spend about 45 minutes warming up with scales and exercises. Then I would typically enjoy about 3 hours of playing, mostly classical.

I will appreciate all your suggestions and insights. THanks.

Note that there have been blind concert
pianists. A blind person cannot even
read sheet music and must struggle with
things that we take for granted. There
have been pianists who've played after losing
an arm. There are people who play
with arthritis.

Digital pianos are the best thing that's
ever happened in the piano world, because
they give pianists an instrument that
has grand piano-like sound and action,
for as little as $500, with volume control,
no maintenance or tuning, and light
weight. What pianist could
ask for anything more? I has been pointed
out on this forum in the past that big-time
concert piansits like Andre Watts and
Valentina Lisitsa use digitals for
practicing. The composer Henry Mancini
uses a digital.

I grew up with many years of classical lessons
and acoustic pianos only. But since 1989
I've been playing only digitals, and they
have enabled me to make great progress,
going from playing four-page salon pieces to
playing big-time concerto movements and
other concert-level pieces. I could not
have made such progress on an acoustic piano.
I would not trade my digital for any grand
piano.

Hmmm...I'm just wondering if there is something else going on - maybe the bench is the wrong height? Was there a break when you didn't play at all?

There's a comparison of the feel of digitals in another thread. The poster felt that the FP7's keys bottomed hard and wished that it were possible to insert a felt strip on the keybed. Here's a link.

It's possible that the touch setting of your FP7 was set too high. With Yamahas and, I think, Kawais increasing the touch setting cuts off the lower numbered MIDI control change messages - the ones that trigger the samples recorded at the lowest strike velocity. This makes it necessary to press harder, to get any sound at all. If you can play the Roland in the store, try setting touch to its lowest setting.

@smertens:

You mentioned about owning a grand piano for 30 years. I guess its quite logical to think that you played piano a lot (as in you're into music studies/conservatory) or just loved playing the piano (as in a hobby but a serious one at that).

It wouldn't be surprising if, due to your passion in playing the piano, you'd often spend several hours playing...pushing yourself to the limit. Multiply this by several years...add to that any day job that you have which may have aggravated things, it may be possible that you're having either of these (click the links):
Tendinitis

CTS - Carpal Tunnel Syndrome

If you want an article dealing with pianists in general (something more related to your line of work or hobby, whichever is applicable) check out these links:

Carpal Tunnel Syndrome

Tendonitis


While it may be possible that the digital piano may be triggering such pain, I'm inclined to think that this symptom is more a "cumulative" effect of years and years of constant playing...the effects of which (other than playing better scales, arpeggios of course) are now starting to manifest clinically.

It's fairly common to encounter symptoms like this...but perhaps the best solution is to do anything in moderation...realizing that for a dedicated serious pianist-performer...his most precious gift and "investment" would be his hands. So it is but fitting and proper that doing things (i.e. practising) should be done IN MODERATION...ESPECIALLY now that a symptom has manifested.

If resting doesn't relieve you of the pain, it's time to consult a physician...depending on the nature, degree of any inflammation or damage (if any), a medication or therapy may be prescribed, a surgery (if needed) may be advised, or certain "wrist support" suggested or possibly limitation of the inciting event/action (i.e. piano-playing) to a just an hour or couple of hours per day may be advised.

Like I've said, if the pain doesn't go away despite resting...it's time to see your doctor.

Smertens, I hope that your pain will go away...
On a constructive side (to add to BeowolfsX excellent advice) - I would suggest swapping your fp7 for fp4 or kawaimp5/es4... Their action is lighter (72 grams for fp4) and key bed softer. One user of MusicPlayer forums had similar symptoms to yours after prolonged playing on Yamaha stage piano (their action is stiffer than FP7, but with softer keybed) and was able to get rid of them by switching to fp4.
I spent a couple of hours playing the fp7, and my guess is that your condition was aggravated by the "hard as granite" bottoming out.
All the best, hope your hands will be better!

PS As for changing the touch setting - I am not sure it will make much of a difference: scales, Czerny and non-romantic classical technique require each finger to really "dig" into the key to get firm and crisp sound... Since touch settting doesn't change anything mechanical (ie resistance/hardness), fingers will probably suffer just as much. Even if one would turn touch sensitivity off altogether, fingers would still continue to hit the rock hard key bed...

In your excitement you probably overplayed, more than you usually do on your old Steinway, and you strained and injured your tendons. Once that happens it gets worse every note you play until you lay off and let it heal for a while. Lighten up. Having said that I think the FP7 is a stiffer action than the FP4's action. I like the FP4 action because I get very little strain with it and it still has the Superior Grand 1 samples, same as the FP7. Besides the FP7 action, all the Yamaha digital piano actions somehow irritate my chops.

I get good results taking MSM anti-inflammatory tablets for the tendinitis in my wrists..

Changing the Touch setting does make it easier to get the tone, so you can play with a lighter velocity attack.

Thanks everybody. I truly appreciate your interest in my problem. Just hope I can solve this problem cuz' I can't imagine not having a piano to play - especially now that I have real time available to me that I never had before I retired. I'm starting to worry that my dream of starting every day with a little Bach might be in jeopardy.... I'm positive that my current bout with what is probably tendenitis is a direct result of playing the Roland FP-7. (By the way, I had it set at the lowest of the 100 "sensitivity settings.") It's impossible for me to know at this point if it's the FP-7 per se. Or whether it's because I "overplayed" it when I brought it home from the store.... Should I try it out again? But how would/will I know when I have reached the point of "overplaying?" - since at the time I was experiencing no pain, it only set in after several days.... Do I want a piano I have to worry about overplaying? Again, never in my many years of playing my Steinway - for hours at a time - did I ever have pain. (By the way, Steinway, relatively speaking, is known as a hard action piano. My hands were strong and in excellent shape prior to bringing home the Roland).... I appreciate the suggestions that I try pianos with softer keybeds, for example, the Kawai MP5, the Roland FP-4, and 700 GX. The next challenge is finding them in a showroom where I can try them..... Which takes me right back to square one: How long do I have to play these demo pianos to know if I am going to have a problem when I get it home and play it more than a few minutes???? I loved the Roland FP-7 in the showroom. How do I keep from making another mistake like I already made??

I don't have a definitive answer, but do agree that job 1 is to let your hands heal. When you can, do some light stretching several times a day. A little discomfort is Ok, pain is a signal to stop immediately.

When you're pain free, try to audition 'boards, paying particular attention to any feeling of discomfort. I and others have experienced discomfort from long playing - Yamaha DP's in my case. I found that I wanted to stop after c.45 minutes, but that I could continue after resting and stretching.

This is the first time I've read about the severe symptoms that you're experiencing. When you were playing the acoustic, did you play for that long a session?

Acoustic actions transmit a feeling of setting a mass into motion, digital actions transmit a feeling of pressing on the end of a lever. I wonder if this problem could be just a result of your unconsciously tensing while having to adjust to a different feeling.

The touch setting recommendation was a long shot and you already had it covered. The lightest setting is still a good idea, because it will let you experience the full dynamic range of the included sounds.

Smertens,
I've spent literally hours (2-3 at a time) when auditioning DPs. Well, I am a poor student and this was a big investment:) Just bring a decent pair of headphones, some music sheets and nobody in the shop will mind you playing (even for a couple of hours).
If I were you, I would concentrate on trying the pianos that are known to have *lighter* action - Kawai MP5/ES4, Roland FP4. As for 700GX- it has escapement feature which softened its key bed, but it's ACTION is stiffer then the other pianos above. Just wait for your hands to heal first;)
All the best!

I've cured myself of this problem, maybe some of the things that work for me will work for you.

And Yes. Probably the change in keybed height led to sore hands.

I had SERIOUS problems with nerves and joints (pain soreness numbness) about five years ago after 15 years of heavy playing.
Instead of giving up, I continually experimented with different ways of playing (taking breaks of course to recover from any injuries I sustained). Finally I homed in on a technique that was so safe that all the pain went away no matter how much I played.

So here are the rules i follow:
Assume you've got your right hand over the keyboard like you're going to play:

1. Fingers straight into keys:
Slide a credit card between your ring and middle finger. The card should point straight up. (why? this minimizes torque at the knuckle and thus reduces knuckle joint point)

2. Elbow rotation adjusted to ease wrist tension:
Put your right hand ready to play above the keys, see how far you can rotate your palm to the right (imagine turning a key in a lock counter clockwise). If you can't rotate your palm out much than you already have your forearm maximally rotated counter-clockwise. This causes pain (for me the pain from this comes as pain all over the hand the next day).

Now rotate your elbow so that it is pointing more to the side than down (you will have to rotate your upper arm bone from the shoulder), now with your new elbow position see how far to the right you can rotate your palm again. You should now be able to face it a bit to the right. Now leave your elbow there and rotate your palm back down into playing position (see step 1). Now your fore-arm will not be at maximum rotation, and you have removed a source of pain.

3. Middle finger in line with forearm
Place your right hand over the keys as if to play. straighten your fingers. Is your middle finger pointing the same direction as your forearm (left-right wise, not up/down wise)? Try to make sure it is when you play. This keeps you from wrecking your ulnar nerve (which goes outside the carpal tunnel on the pinky side of the wrist). Here's an example of doing it wrong.
http://www.ergomatters.co.uk/images/wrist_bad2_sm.jpg


4.Slight valley between wrist and hand:
How bent should your wrist be? Well if you keep it absolutely straight this maximizes the carpal tunnel area which is good. Unfortunately, when your tendons are under tension, this can also squeeze the median nerve between the tendons and the carpal ligament. So I keep the top of my hand and wrist formed into a very slight valley.

5. Seat height right.
At certain seat heights it becomes difficult to follow any of the above rules. So find a height at which you can follow the rules but you feel comfortable too.

6. reduce muscular tension
All of my finger action comes from the knuckle. The two joints on the finger are supple and loose. It also takes SOME wrist tension to keep the meat of the hand still as the fingers do their work. So the trick is to be aware of the tension and minimize it. A rigid claw-like playing style will destroy your hands.

***
So that's it!
This has made playing extremely safe and painless for me. And I play for hours every day. And I have pretty unforgiving and tight carpal tunnels. Yes it was a long time before I could follow all these rules without conscious thought.

Everyone's anatomy is slightly different but if you really love playing, don't give up. Once the pain goes away try some of these things and see if they help!

good luck!

Dear Chewywater,

Thank you so much for taking the time to type up the details of how you beat this beast. I don't have any kind of keyboard at this point. So I can't try out your suggestions. But I certainly will as soon as I am able to play again.

On that note: my pain is tremendously reduced today thank goodness. Someone suggested using a heating pad on my hands and that seems to have helped a lot. I'm hopeful I'll be able to play again relatively soon. But think I want to be pain free for a couple of weeks before I get back into shopping for a DP.

Glad to hear you're able to play hours at a time. Based on the posts I was starting to think that most people seem to be happy just playing 45-60 min. It historically has taken me at least 45 min - when playing my acoustic - to get warmed up, in the groove... If I have to limit my total session at on DP to less than an hour, it's not going to be much fun for me.... TRULY HOPE your suggestions work for me.

By the way: do you like your CLP170? SInce you seem to understand my problem, do you have an recommendations as to what DP I should buy?

I have a clp120 and a clp170 in the house.
The clp170 sounds great. It's action feels realistic but is slightly deep and heavy for my liking, making it more unforgiving safety-wise.

The 120 sounds cheap but I find myself playing on it a lot because the action is lighter, shallower, crisper, and more forgiving safety wise. The action is not very realistic but good enough that the technique developed there will translate to a real piano.

I think I've been out of the market too long to give you much more advice on specific models. Since you're having safety issues I would choose something with action that is not too deep and not too heavy.

As far as sound goes, the 170 was definitely the best sounding dp out there 4 years ago. It is still a pleasure to listen to. It attempts to simulate resonance between strings when the pedal is down. (if you are intending on recording yourself though you still need either a real piano or synthogy ivory)

note: I edited some of my original message to you to make it easier to understand.

cheers

For what it's worth, when I was looking at digital pianos I spent a bit of time with the FP-7. I liked the piano but the action was stiff. Almost like pushing in thumbtacks. I noticed my hands were sore after a hour at the store. I eventually ended up with a Kawai MP8ii. Even with that keyboard, I occaisionally overwork one hand or another and have to take a day off.

Chewywater's advice looks good to me. I'll be cutting and pasting his message for my files to keep my 50 year-old hands in top form.

I really appreciate knowing that I'm not the first one who has had a problem with the "action" of digital pianos, specifically the FP-7.... Although the people at Guitar Center have been wonderful in trying to help me solve my problem, I was told they have never had a complaint such as mine which, of course, made me feel very defensive.

PM sent...

To the original poster,

Sorry to hear about your hand problems. I, too have noticed some overemphasis on heavier weighting in certain digitals (though Roland never was on my list of offenders). My Casio would be among them, though I rarely put in more than an hour of practicing on it in any one sitting. Let us know if you are able to find a solution, because I'm sure it will be helpful to someone else down the road...

Henry Mancini is dead. I believe in 1994.
He endorsed Korg in 1991. Hardly the same generation of hammer actions and super-expressive sound sampling technology as we have now...

Smertens, sorry to hear of your trouble.

I have owned the FP-7 since August last year and have had no trouble with my hands - not even after carpal tunnel. During my lesons I was playing a Zimmerman acoustic baby grand and it caused me all sorts of trouble as it was so heavy.

I have recently started setting the action to LIGHT and using the Piano 2 sound - it is so good.

I am a older true beginner who has played on an FP-7 for 6 months anywhere from 1-3 hours per day. I would agree that the FP-7 does not have the lightest touch of the DP's but it certainly isn't extraordinarily heavy.

Last night I played on a Yamaha grand and since I had just read this post I focused on the touch. It was heavier than my FP-7. I went to a Clavinova and the touch was lighter. Likewise on another Yamaha model. I tried my friend's Steinway mini-grand and it was about the same as the FP-7.

My point is I see people in the forum being scared away from the FP-7 because of the reputed heavy touch without even trying it. If you want a light touch then go for it (FP-4, etc.) but don't rule out the FP-7 because it is a heavy monster that is going to ruin your tendons.