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#1154088 - 02/27/09 06:19 PM Re: Piano problems encountered. [Re: Scooters]  
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 8,453
Horowitzian Offline
8000 Post Club Member
Horowitzian  Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 8,453
Originally Posted by Scooters
Just wondering,

Do you guys (and Gals) see funny characters in the text of the posts here on the forum? I wrote the Piano Forum contact email address asking about this but I'd like to know if you see them too?

[...]

Scooter


It's a code error of some kind. There a few in my sig line. That's supposed to be Sérénade.


Close only counts in horseshoes, hand grenades, and nuclear weapons.
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#1154172 - 02/27/09 08:14 PM Re: Piano problems encountered. [Re: RPD]  
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,919
Supply Offline
3000 Post Club Member
Supply  Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,919
Vancouver Island, BC, Canada
How to post pictures on PW is probably the most asked - and answered - question on all the forums.

Do a quick search...

(That's what we tell all the people asking the common questions, so no offence...)

#1154178 - 02/27/09 08:24 PM Re: Piano problems encountered. [Re: Supply]  
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 4,263
Silverwood Pianos Offline
4000 Post Club Member
Silverwood Pianos  Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 4,263
Vancouver B. C. Canada
Yes it is an error code of some sort. You can see the punctuation marks on the previous page in my postings about the NSF cheques. Apparently the new sofware doesn't like correct grammer at the moment.

Or maybe it doesn't like the grammer on the last page. But the last page was from the old sofware. It seems to like it here. Hey Horowitzian, I would try to delete your profile stuff and then try loading it again. Might reset the whole thing there.


Dan Silverwood
www.silverwoodpianos.com
http://silverwoodpianos.blogspot.com/
http://www.facebook.com/SilverwoodPianosDotCom
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur."
#1154201 - 02/27/09 09:06 PM Re: Piano problems encountered. [Re: Silverwood Pianos]  
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 6,828
Jerry Groot RPT Offline
6000 Post Club Member
Jerry Groot RPT  Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 6,828
Grand Rapids Michigan
Oh, I did Jurgen, it ain't helping this ole mind much. I gave up. Got a LARGE on posted but, deleted it... Screw it.

Yeah, I see those funny thingy's too. He's playing mind games with us.

Today: After tuning a Kawai grand, Kawai upright and a Baldwin L for a concert, I had another service call on a Kawai K18 with sticking keys. Tons of those the past 10 days. This one had warped hamemrs. (new piano.) And, again, shallow key dip and needed back checks regulated. Getting tired of that now.

Then, wondered off half way across campus to find a Baldwin studio that had a pedal not working. Pedals work perfectly but, the drums behind the piano are causing BIG BIG buzzzzzzzz sounds. Probably, that's the main complaint, who knows...

Then, hair cut and massage.. mmmmm, that nice...


Jerry Groot RPT
Piano Technicians Guild
Grand Rapids, Michigan
www.grootpiano.com

We love to play BF2.
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#1160399 - 03/09/09 11:54 PM Re: Piano problems encountered. [Re: Jerry Groot RPT]  
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 6,828
Jerry Groot RPT Offline
6000 Post Club Member
Jerry Groot RPT  Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 6,828
Grand Rapids Michigan
Today, I went to look at a piano that I had received a call on from a customer that had another tuner that had been working on it that had to make 4 different trips over there and still couldn't fix the problems.

They had raised pitch on the piano, broken several strings, attempted replacing the wires and each time, the wire pulled through the tuning pin. Obviously, they weren't putting the string in far enough to begin with. Finally, they managed to keep it in. But, the coils were quite sloppy.

When I arrived, it was still quite flat and horribly out of tune. And, I do mean, horribly out. Turns out it was the first piano this person had tuned for a customer. Guess we've all been there before. Anyway, I wound up condemning the piano. It was one of those cases where it probably should not have been tuned in the first place, just condemned right off the bat. There were far to many other things that were wrong with it such as several cracks in the sounding board a couple that were running behind bridges and buzzing badly. Loose ribs etc.

It was a Baldwin spinet only tuned 3 or 4 times in 50 years. It was the kind where the stickers went up through the wooden rail. The rail itself was slightly warped. Enough so, that the angle had changed causing the stickers to go upwards and backwards - towards the action at the same time, not only elongating the bushings but, severely sticking in the bushings because of it. Plus, 3 or 4 of the bushings were coming out.

All the hammer flanges were so loose, hammers were just flopping. Why they didn't bother to at least tighten the flanges while they had the action out 4 times, is beyond me but, they didn't. Of course, while the action is in place, you can't get at the screws. Both the key-bed and action rail are in the way.

Hammers were badly worn due to the flanges being loose. I eased key bushings, got it to playing at least, fixed the really horrible sounding strings that were replaced with 4, 3 and 2 coils, (tuned them I mean) and then said, you know, if it were me, I would not have worked on it in the first place. It's time to get a replacement piano. There are just to many other things wrong with it. They accepted that figuring I might be telling them so before I arrived. So, there goes another piano that bites the dust.

Sad. Had that piano been properly cared for throughout the years, it would have probably still been sounding okay today.


Jerry Groot RPT
Piano Technicians Guild
Grand Rapids, Michigan
www.grootpiano.com

We love to play BF2.
#1160599 - 03/10/09 09:49 AM Re: Piano problems encountered. [Re: Jerry Groot RPT]  
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,645
Dave Stahl Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Dave Stahl  Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,645
I had an interesting one late last week: a Yamaha U-1, only 6 years old. The customer had told me that some of the notes didn't make much sound. Just kind of thudded. The piano had come to sunny (at least for the moment) California from Philadelphia about a year ago.

When I got there, I found that most of the hammers were blocking against the strings. First thought was the change in climate messed with the let off. Not so. The checks were way out of regulation. I thought that maybe the balance rail had changed dimensionally with the weather. Not so. All other facets of the regulation--besides checking--were just about perfect.

I regulated the checks, and everything was fine. While bending wires, I wondered why this might occur. I've seen it before as a result of extreme changes in blow distance (way too much negative lost motion causing the checks to be too far forward), but never in a Yamaha. While it's a mystery that will probably never be answered, I figured that it must have been a tech trying to solve the problem some Yamahas have of notes bobbling occasionally.


Promote Harmony in the Universe...Tune your piano!

Dave Stahl, RPT
Piano Technician's Guild
San Jose, CA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JAniw3m7L2I
http://dstahlpiano.net
#1160726 - 03/10/09 02:57 PM Re: Piano problems encountered. [Re: Dave Stahl]  
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 6,828
Jerry Groot RPT Offline
6000 Post Club Member
Jerry Groot RPT  Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 6,828
Grand Rapids Michigan
My first thought was, were the dags in place for the move? That's what they are for after all, to keep the action in place during moving. I wonder if they weren't, if the action could slide around enough to cause that?


Jerry Groot RPT
Piano Technicians Guild
Grand Rapids, Michigan
www.grootpiano.com

We love to play BF2.
#1164424 - 03/18/09 12:07 AM Re: Piano problems encountered. [Re: RPD]  
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,645
Dave Stahl Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Dave Stahl  Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,645
I thought I'd try to revive this topic, as today turned out to be an interesting day.

I tuned 5 pianos today. Each of them had a small or large issue or two to contend with in addition to the tuning.

1.A Walter 190 grand: way too bright, but right at pitch after 9 months without being tuned. I spent the extra 1/2 hour doing a "coarse" voicing to soften it up.

2. Samick SG 150 petite grand: As a prelude, when I opened the door (I have access via lock box combination hidden away in the shed), I heard beep-beep-beep, and thought "oh crap." "Please enter code" said the little display. The alarm went off. The cops came. I called the owner. Welcome to San Francisco, kid. I learned repinning action parts on this instrument. Lots of graphite or something in them there flanges. 3 jacks and 3 hammers today(not ones I'd fixed before) after a 2 year period of relative calm. And the pedal pin had pushed out of the pedal and bracket, so I reinsterted it. New grommet needs to be ordered.

3. Kawai RX 3, pretty new: No real problems, just some creaks starting in the rep springs, and a sqeaky pitman. Adjusted upstop rail as I had the action out. Pitch raise, tune 440.

4. George Steck spinet, circa 1940s: Interesting piano. You can actually remove the action without disconnecting any stickers (though I didn't do it today). Broken pedal assist spring, causing too much weight on the dowel, which lifted some dampers off the strings. Replaced spring, added felt to bottom of pedal to get rid of scraping sound at interface. 20-60cents flat. Pitch raise only, per time limitations.

5. Steinberg upright, 2 years old. No big problems, but an annoying creak when pedal pushed. Lubed damper lever springs with Protek MPL 1 (vaseliny looking stuff, good for this sort of thing) and spring tool. Kind of a PITA, but noise gone.

It was a long day. The fact is, piano techs can earn decent money, but doing so requires a fair amount of elbow grease and thinking on your feet.


Promote Harmony in the Universe...Tune your piano!

Dave Stahl, RPT
Piano Technician's Guild
San Jose, CA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JAniw3m7L2I
http://dstahlpiano.net
#1164674 - 03/18/09 02:38 PM Re: Piano problems encountered. [Re: Dave Stahl]  
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 6,828
Jerry Groot RPT Offline
6000 Post Club Member
Jerry Groot RPT  Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 6,828
Grand Rapids Michigan
Nice post Dave. It can be frustrating when almost every piano has a problem or two.

I like the easy stuff too. Yesterday, Gulbransen spinet. Had my son with me. Push one key down, a whole bunch go down. "Jer, what is it?" He guessed something under the keys? After a few guesses, I finally hauled out the pencil crammed between the stickers and back checks. problem solved.

This next one should really be titled problem hearing:

Customer, had a good RPT come in and tune the piano. Wasn't happy. RPT returned 3 different times trying everything he could think of, tuned it sharp, flat, in tune and nothing helped. Finally, he recommends me.

I come in, tune it, have him set down and check everything he complained about with the other tuner. "Marvelous, he said, just marvelous, I love it!" I said, play it again. Then, I went up and down the scale, all the way up, all the down, up down etc.... "Beautiful, good job."

I walked out the door and said to my son, watch, he'll be calling before we come home. Sure enough, 3 hours later he called saying, "it doesn't sound 'true' up in the treble area and sounds sharp."

I returned the call that night with this message on his voice mail.

(Fake Name)--- Jon, I specifically had you check the notes you were complaining about for a reason. I had talked with the previous tuner and talked with him again after I was done. We played them in octaves, individually, you name it, we tried it. You were very happy, remember?

Did I mention that he was also a bit confused? When I got there, he thought I was the insurance agent. And, repeatably insisted that we didn't have an appointment which he made with me himself... His wife said, "I have to live with this every single day!!!"

Jon, you had your hearing aides turned up to the point of squealing. Turn your head one direction, you will get one sound, turn it another, you will get another sound. The piano is in tune Jon. I can come back out and check it but, I will tell you the same thing I am telling you now and will charge you for it besides... I checked it in front of you, you checked it before I left. I know my work and the work of the other tuner. Sorry Jon, but, it is your hearing and/or, the hearing aides not the piano or the tunings.

Next day... He calls back... Jerry, I talked with my oldest brother who also wears hearing aides. He said, that he can no longer listen to his old records as they all sound so distorted and very out of tune that it drives him nuts. I guess that's what is happening to me too! I never heard of that before, he said. I thought, I have, my dad wore hearing aides, my grandmother and father in a law did too and they do produce different levels of hearing than normal hearing does sometimes. Especially when you have it cranked up to the point of squealing with or without loud noises. Just try dropping a plate near them and watch them jump out of their skin from the shattering plate! He readily accepted that he was the problem.



Jerry Groot RPT
Piano Technicians Guild
Grand Rapids, Michigan
www.grootpiano.com

We love to play BF2.
#1166366 - 03/21/09 01:01 PM Re: Piano problems encountered. [Re: Jerry Groot RPT]  
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 6,828
Jerry Groot RPT Offline
6000 Post Club Member
Jerry Groot RPT  Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 6,828
Grand Rapids Michigan
Did you know that a portion of the pedal lyre on Kawai grands, (I don't know if all of them are this way or not but, The RX-3 is for sure, the year of this one is 2006) the lower box of it anyway, is partial PVC? What a pain to work with! No wonder they come unglued all of the time! If you clamp them like you normally would with a full wooden pedal lyre, you will SPLIT the plastic around the wooden posts that enter into the box into tiny little spider lines.. Ask me how I found this out???

Cost me $142 to have my re-finisher repair it.


Jerry Groot RPT
Piano Technicians Guild
Grand Rapids, Michigan
www.grootpiano.com

We love to play BF2.
#1166375 - 03/21/09 01:12 PM Re: Piano problems encountered. [Re: Silverwood Pianos]  
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 8,453
Horowitzian Offline
8000 Post Club Member
Horowitzian  Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 8,453
Originally Posted by Silverwood Pianos
[...] Hey Horowitzian, I would try to delete your profile stuff and then try loading it again. Might reset the whole thing there.

I just saw this...it fixed itself some weeks ago in the most mysterious fashion. Perhaps Frank waved his magic wand. grin


Close only counts in horseshoes, hand grenades, and nuclear weapons.
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