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#650261 - 05/08/02 08:14 PM Re: Stanwood?  
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 4,491
Bob Offline
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Bob  Offline
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Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 4,491
Florida
Too much downbearing will cause a sharp pointed attack and short sustain - too little downbearing will cause weak tone. I recently had to raise two strings at the end of a bridge due to inadequate downbearing. No amount of voicing would fix the weak tone. The deficiency in the height of the bridge could be easily measured with a ruler - it was that bad. Once I raised the strings, the tone improved.

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#650262 - 05/09/02 01:32 AM Re: Stanwood?  
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JohnC Offline
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JohnC  Offline
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Lower Left Coast
Derick,

My B (1901) breaks in the plate three times. E2/F2, B4/C5, and E6/F6. A5 is smack in the middle of the breaks.

FWIW, The last agraff is on B4.

I wouldn't get too worried about those tests. If I'm not mistaken, that was only one tech's guideline. IMHO, it is too fine a line to apply on a blanket basis to *all* pianos. And even if it were to be applied to every piano, how do you know you stopped timing the note exactly when you should have to be consistent with the guideline?

In my opinion, although sustain is important and necessary, the over all *quality* of the tone (of which, sustain is a part of) as well as the consistency and evenness of the sound far out weighs small variations in results to a dogmatic test. I believe your test at the college somewhat supports my thesis. YMMV.


There are few joys in life greater than the absence of pain.
#650263 - 05/09/02 08:08 AM Re: Stanwood?  
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 512
Mat D. Offline
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Mat D.  Offline
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Joined: May 2001
Posts: 512
Sterling Heights, Michigan
Very interesting---all.

My question is: If a piano has one note (say G#5) that exhibits a sustain problem (described as short fundamental w/quick decay), but all other notes around it are fine---can this be a downbearing or soundboard problem. I would assume that a problem w/downbearing or soundboard would affect a handful of notes in a particular area.

I have always had a bit of a problem with one single note on my M&H BB--(G#5), but it is the only note in that octave that really exhibits this problem. My tech is working on it, having resolved a couple other problems in that octave, but this one particular note is a real "stinker".

Any suggestions as to a more aggressive approach to this note---or could it actually be a downbearing related problem?

BTW, this same note was a problem when I had the Renner Blues & now w/the Steinway hammers as well(a little better now, but not much)

Thanks, Mat D.

#650264 - 05/09/02 11:38 AM Re: Stanwood?  
Joined: Jan 2002
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Derick Offline
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Derick  Offline
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New York
John,

Thanks for the info. I stopped in Barnes and Noble looked thru The Piano Book. They only give my piano passing mention frown . Anyway, I looked at Fine's test. He suggested plucking a string in the killer octave and said the sustain should be 'clearly audible' for 5 seconds or more. If less than 5 seconds, the soundboard or bridge have a problem. I tried this and the note was clearly audible well beyond the 10 seconds.

I think pique must have a super piano wink . Sustain on my piano doesn't reach into the 20 second mark until the C3 octave.

Just for kicks, I timed A0. But I timed it from striking point until I couldn't hear a sound. That took 68-70 seconds.

In any case, I don't hear a sustain problem except for one note that irks me which I'll address in a post to Mat D.

Derick


Don't worry about people stealing your ideas. If your ideas are any good, you'll have to ram them down people's throats.
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#650265 - 05/09/02 11:54 AM Re: Stanwood?  
Joined: Jan 2002
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Derick Offline
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Derick  Offline
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Posts: 3,290
New York
Mat,

I know that some pianos have soundboards with dead spots in them, but they are usually of the poorest quality and with plywood soundboards.

I would think the 'pluck' test could give you an idea if there might be a downbearing issue. If all the notes around this one sustain longer, than perhaps it is downbearing?

As you know, I'm not a tech so I'm just spewing out what little I've picked up; hopefully one of the techs will politely tell me I've got my head up my butt (if I do) smile .

B3 irks me on my piano. It has this 'clunky' sound. Hard to explain other than the attack is a little more aggressive than most notes, then the sustain takes a quick 'nose-dive' in volume but than it hangs on and decays normally after that.

The 'pluck' test doesn't indicate any problem with the soundboard/bridge, so I suspect it's a voicing issue. However, all the other notes that were bothering me cleared up with the new hammers but this problem has persisted. It's also VERY difficult to explain to a tech and all have said they don't hear it. I know I'm not imagining it. I wish I knew how to explain it better.

Derick


Don't worry about people stealing your ideas. If your ideas are any good, you'll have to ram them down people's throats.
#650266 - 05/09/02 01:05 PM Re: Stanwood?  
Joined: Jun 2001
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piqué Offline
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piqué  Offline
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Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 5,485
derick,
did you get my email? have you tried to write back? i haven't received anything so just wondering if i have a server problem. thanks.


piqué

now in paperback:
[Linked Image]

Grand Obsession: A Piano Odyssey
#650267 - 05/09/02 01:14 PM Re: Stanwood?  
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 3,290
Derick Offline
3000 Post Club Member
Derick  Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 3,290
New York
Hi pique,

Yes, I got it last night and responded. You still haven't received mine???

Your email is no longer on the server (it's on my hard disk at home). If you want, send me another email, I'll be able to retrieve it here at work and respond back to you.

BTW, Jodi is asking you to join us for a cup of coffee (just in case you didn't see her post). It's a pretty dull and boring place without you.

Derick


Don't worry about people stealing your ideas. If your ideas are any good, you'll have to ram them down people's throats.
#650268 - 05/09/02 01:20 PM Re: Stanwood?  
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,969
Alex Hernandez Offline
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Alex Hernandez  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,969
Sometimes sustain problems can be attributed to shallow bridge notching, or notching that is to forward of the bridge pin itself.




Blüthner USA, LLC
#650269 - 05/09/02 01:31 PM Re: Stanwood?  
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 5,485
piqué Offline
5000 Post Club Member
piqué  Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 5,485
ok, i didn't get your email, but i am receiving email from others. i'll send another now.


piqué

now in paperback:
[Linked Image]

Grand Obsession: A Piano Odyssey
#650270 - 05/09/02 01:41 PM Re: Stanwood?  
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 3,290
Derick Offline
3000 Post Club Member
Derick  Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 3,290
New York
pique,

YGM. Hopefully!

Let me know,
Derick


Don't worry about people stealing your ideas. If your ideas are any good, you'll have to ram them down people's throats.
#650271 - 05/09/02 01:46 PM Re: Stanwood?  
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 512
Mat D. Offline
500 Post Club Member
Mat D.  Offline
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Joined: May 2001
Posts: 512
Sterling Heights, Michigan
Derick--my G#5 passes the pluck test--no problem. I think it is a voicing issue and we haven't quite hit on it yet.

Mat

#650272 - 05/10/02 10:28 AM Re: Stanwood?  
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 597
Eldon Offline
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Eldon  Offline
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Joined: May 2001
Posts: 597
Illinois
Pigue,
Gee, I'd like an e-mail, too. smile keyboard@internet-stat.com
Gotta go...busy day.


Sincerely,
Eldon
#650273 - 05/10/02 02:35 PM Re: Stanwood?  
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 647
Brian Lawson, RPT Offline
500 Post Club Member
Brian Lawson, RPT  Offline
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 647
South Africa
One other thing (can't remeber who said) the Killer octave is like where the sand stops and the shores begin - ie its a different point in each piano, but is within that A4 break area.


Brian Lawson, RPT
Johannesburg
South Africa

http://www.lawsonic.co.za
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