Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Piano Tuner-Technicians Forum Bosendorfer voicing revelation

I am not a working tuner/technician. I have been in the business for nearly 35 years and have picked up some pretty fair technical skills. I do trouble-shooting in the store and make occasional emergency house calls. I have also toured several factories world-wide. I do pop into this forum from time to time and mostly lurk. These are my credentials.

I witnessed something yesterday that I though was worthy of passing on.

My wife, who works with me, had a prospect deciding between a new Bosendorfer 214 and a new 225. We had just pulled the 225 in from another location for her selection. She felt the 225 might be two strident in tone and volume. We asked her to come back today after we tuned the piano from the move. Our head tech had just returned from spending a month in Vienna at the Bosendorfer factory. One of the things he learned there was that they brought the pianos to A443 before they performed all of the final voicing. Our tech found the 225 to be just below A440 in pitch. As he tuned it up to A443 a miraculous transformation took place in the tone. It changed in character unbelievably. What was loud and strident became lush and yet still powerful. I have seen and heard a few things over the years, but this was amazing.

Apparently, at least on Bosies, voicing done at A443 sounds completely different at lower pitches. I would never have believed it. Then, one would think that raising the pitch would induce more harsh stridency, not less. Go figure.

Our guy told the guys at the factory that all American techs tune to A440. He asked why they did not voice at this pitch? They answered that if the new pianos left the factory at A440 they would be flat when they arrived. Our guy countered that when they were brought back to A440 the voicing would be correct. They just scratched their heads. German thinking?

Does that mean you would recommend that all Bosendorfers are tuned to 443?

I think my brother, who's a cellist in an ochestra, once told me after a trip to Vienna that they do not tune to 440.

Very interesting. Thanks for sharing :-)

Well Marty I don’t know about the German thinking part because I always thought that Bosendorfer was in Vienna which is in Austria I think……

www.silverwoodpianos.com

Come on Dan,
everyone knows Austria is just a county in...
JOKE!!!!!

Confirmed Marty. I just had a conversation with a local tech that was at the Bosendorfer factory last year, and A443 is their standard. They tune all of their instruments to A443 whether or not they are voicing is inconsequential. It is their standard there apparently. Just like ours is A440 here. So I believe if my calculations are correct it is 4 cents for each single hertz level, so A443 is plus 12 cents sharp from us.

James,
Now now you can start a war that way over there……

www.silverwoodpianos.com

A-443 is the factory spec for tuning. Think about this. All string leveling and hammer mating IS done when the pianos are tuned to this pitch, as is all final voicing. When tuning to a lower pitch the string segments/planes will be in slightly different positions which can cause some questionable voicing/tonal irregularities. When I tuned my 214 to 440 it definitely sounded not quite right. When brought back up to 443 it was a revelation.
Lol. They are germans... just germans in another country.

Silverwood,
It was exactly that they are voicing at 443 that was the point of my discussion. According to this experience it does not seem "inconsequential."

Curry,
I think you are onto another aspec on the string leveling at different string tensions.

Everyone knows Austrians think and behave completely differently than Germans.

Well sure thing Marty what I did was ask a local tech here and his answer was they do everything at A443, not just voicing. This is their standard for everything voicing, tuning, playing, all of it. That was the response I received. Just confirming what you have discovered there.

Curry is correct of course, the string plane would change, so would the tension on the wire and the weight on the bridges and sounding board.

www.silverwoodpianos.com

I think the logic behind 443 Hz can be found in the fact that most orchestras chose a pitch between 442 - 444.

This causes problems for wind instrument as their pitch variation is rather limited. Therefore e.g. woodwinds for use in orchestras are specially manufactured with a pitch of e.g. 443.

If on the other hand one plays chamber music where the piano is tuned at 440 and one would use one of the above woodwinds with a 443 pitch one run agian into troubles.

http://www.wer-weiss-was.de/theme180/article1985768.html

schwammerl.

Shoot, just got the piano tuned, why couldn't you have posted this last week? So I assume this is for all Bosie models? Is this then something that you would recommend for all Bosies (at least to give it a try and see if you like it)? Anyone out there with a 200 willing to give it a try and report back

For all models. I've also tuned a clients 225 at 440 and believe me he thought it sounded much better when I gave him 443 at the next tuning.
I will also point out that the factory gives a range of 440-445 that the pianos can be tuned at with no problem, but the 443 is highly recommended.

Point of information: is 440 to 443 regarded as a "pitch raise"?

Also, do any other European brands tune high in a similar way?

David-G,
I think more than 8 cents is considered a pitch raise.

www.silverwoodpianos.com

It seems the pitch raise is creeping onto our shores as well. I noticed in an artist contract for the Kennedy Center that their house piano for one of the concert series will be tuned to A 442! Something to do with the orchestra's choice, perhaps? Or perhaps I'll be playing on a Bosie... (sorry, Marty, for the tangent)

Yes, it's a pitch raise.

There is a technical explanation that explains the phenomenon that I just about grasped...Kent Webb from S & S explained it recently...

I may remember this wrong but all you brainiacs out there will put me right...I'm sure of that...

When the piano is WELL tuned with a suitable stretch at 442/443/444 somewhere north of 440, the coincident partials are closer/beat faster/sound smoother..something like that...

I always tune at 442 in the Steinway and Sons selection room at the store...apart from giving the pianos a little extra sizzle it also helps the tuner doing the first house call weeks/months down the road...more likely that the piano will still be above 440 by then.

Valuable observation Marty ! thanks.

Wow! Next time I tune the Bosie in the local concert hall I'm creeping the pitch up, see if those poor Christmas Carol singers from the Women's Institute can still hit the notes this year!

Any answer to the question about whether other European manufacturers do their factory prep and tuning to 443 instead of 440?

Would a piano that has been maintained for a few years at 440 have any difficulties if raised to 443?

Depends, amongst other things, on the condition of the strings..rust etc..
If the piano is modern era (whatever that means :-) ) I would suggest that it will be OK...
If you break a couple of strings...maybe it's not OK...

Try a pitch raise to 442 first