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Re: Oddball Tuning Hammer Designs #629911
08/25/08 12:34 PM
08/25/08 12:34 PM
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 119
Lansing, MI
B
b3groover Offline
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b3groover  Offline
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B

Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 119
Lansing, MI
Dumb noob question time: What is flagpoling? And how does a novice like myself avoid it?


=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Jim Alfredson
Musician / Tuner
www.organissimo.org
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Re: Oddball Tuning Hammer Designs #629912
08/25/08 12:50 PM
08/25/08 12:50 PM
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 4,263
Vancouver B. C. Canada
Silverwood Pianos Offline
4000 Post Club Member
Silverwood Pianos  Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 4,263
Vancouver B. C. Canada
Very interesting BDB, thanks for the view, so the handle held another configuration for tuning, maybe for harpsichords, instead of having to have another hammer? Or just an option for a tight space?


Dan Silverwood
www.silverwoodpianos.com
http://silverwoodpianos.blogspot.com/
http://www.facebook.com/SilverwoodPianosDotCom
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur."
Re: Oddball Tuning Hammer Designs #629913
08/26/08 03:55 AM
08/26/08 03:55 AM
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 4,263
Vancouver B. C. Canada
Silverwood Pianos Offline
4000 Post Club Member
Silverwood Pianos  Offline
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 4,263
Vancouver B. C. Canada
B3groover,

Flagpoling refers to the twisting of the tuning pin inside the pin block. When you are tuning a tight pin block,if you pull or push on the tuning hammer sometimes the part of the tuning pin inside the pin block does not move at the same time. Also if you are not using the proper technique you will cause the tuning pin to “lean” one way or another. This type of thing will eventually open up the hole the tuning pin is inserted into, resulting in loose or jumpy pins.

How do you get around this? practice, my man practice……. No way to avoid this really…. It happens to everyone. Make sure your technique is the proper one. Different pianos will sometimes require a different technique. Each instrument will have its own “feel” to it… the way it likes to be manipulated. Your job is to find that edge of balance…….. make notes on each one you tune. wink


Dan Silverwood
www.silverwoodpianos.com
http://silverwoodpianos.blogspot.com/
http://www.facebook.com/SilverwoodPianosDotCom
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur."
Re: Oddball Tuning Hammer Designs #629914
08/27/08 12:13 AM
08/27/08 12:13 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 498
Arvada, Colorado, USA, Earth
Randy Karasik Offline
Full Member
Randy Karasik  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 498
Arvada, Colorado, USA, Earth
Quote
Originally posted by Silverwood Pianos:
There is a sensor. It is called your ear………….
... and the other one is your hand.

Hand and ear working together. Anything that gets in the way of that ... unecessary linkage, unecessary weight, unecessary lost motion ... will interfere.


Registered Piano Technician
Serving Colorado Since 1978
randy@karasikpiano.com
www.karasikpiano.com
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Re: Oddball Tuning Hammer Designs #629915
08/27/08 12:42 AM
08/27/08 12:42 AM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 839
North-East US
UprightTooner Offline OP
500 Post Club Member
UprightTooner  Offline OP
500 Post Club Member

Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 839
North-East US
Randy:

This is a Topic about oddball hammers. Are you saying that a hammer without "... unecessary linkage, unecessary weight, unecessary lost motion ..." belongs in this catagory? wink

Regards,


Part-time tuner
Re: Oddball Tuning Hammer Designs #629916
08/27/08 09:26 AM
08/27/08 09:26 AM
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 4,263
Vancouver B. C. Canada
Silverwood Pianos Offline
4000 Post Club Member
Silverwood Pianos  Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 4,263
Vancouver B. C. Canada
About 1998 I had a Filipino guy call my shop and asked to come in and tune for work. He showed up with a large pair of vise grips with a tuning head welded onto the jaws. I gave him about 15mins. of pounding and twisting and then I put it to rest. A most unusual hammer I have never found in a catalogue;)


Dan Silverwood
www.silverwoodpianos.com
http://silverwoodpianos.blogspot.com/
http://www.facebook.com/SilverwoodPianosDotCom
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur."
Re: Oddball Tuning Hammer Designs #629917
08/28/08 04:06 AM
08/28/08 04:06 AM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 190
J
Josef Offline
Full Member
Josef  Offline
Full Member
J

Joined: May 2001
Posts: 190
Nothing beats a t-hammer for tuning Harpsichords because of the flagpole issue. Also some historical style tuning pins benefit from the downward push of the handle to set the pin.

If you look at the big timers in the piano tuning industry like Virgil Smith and Franz Mohr to Rnady Potter. For the most part they use a standard style tuning lever. Nothing fancy. They did not get to this point by having the fanciest tuning lever or the prettiest tools. They became great because of talent, hard work and the quality of the work.

A great piano technician could set a concert tuning with a gooseneck lever. The pianist could care less what was used as long as the piano was in tune and stable.

Re: Oddball Tuning Hammer Designs #629918
08/28/08 05:46 AM
08/28/08 05:46 AM
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 6,828
Grand Rapids Michigan
Jerry Groot RPT Offline
6000 Post Club Member
Jerry Groot RPT  Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 6,828
Grand Rapids Michigan
You are absolutely correct Josef. It isn't the tool that makes the man or woman, it's the person using it that makes the final outcome correct or incorrect.

On the other hand, 60 years ago, we didn't have microwaves or computers either. Now we do. Should we still use a typewriter or should we toss out our typewriters upgrading instead to a high tech computer? ;-) Might as was well utilize the best possible technology out there. That's what it's for. Makes all of our lives easier both in the short term, or in the long run.


Jerry Groot RPT
Piano Technicians Guild
Grand Rapids, Michigan
www.grootpiano.com

We love to play BF2.
Re: Oddball Tuning Hammer Designs #629919
08/28/08 07:37 AM
08/28/08 07:37 AM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 190
J
Josef Offline
Full Member
Josef  Offline
Full Member
J

Joined: May 2001
Posts: 190
I agree with making life simpler. I still use a typewriter for forms and such cause it is easier than trying to line up things with computer. wink

I've tried many different levers and I still go back to the tried and true. I find that as long as the lever allows to feel the pin move and control the pin then I don't mind the way it looks or how shiny it is.

Re: Oddball Tuning Hammer Designs #629920
08/28/08 08:18 AM
08/28/08 08:18 AM
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 2,481
Niagara Region, On. Canada
Emmery Offline
2000 Post Club Member
Emmery  Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 2,481
Niagara Region, On. Canada
"A poor musician blames his instrument"
"A poor craftsman blames his tools"

I'm sure we have all heard these expressions before.
We also see amateur golf players miss a 5 foot put with their $700 Ping Zing putters. It probably doesn't hurt to use the best you can afford but far to often the capabilities of tools ect.. exceed the skills of their users. I often think it gives a sense of false confidence or a feeling that its a short cut around a skill that otherwise should be learned. Far to often manufacturer claims are smoke and mirrors too.


Piano Technician
George Brown College /85
Niagara Region
Re: Oddball Tuning Hammer Designs #629921
08/28/08 12:21 PM
08/28/08 12:21 PM
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 29
Dallas
W
weeT Offline
Full Member
weeT  Offline
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W

Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 29
Dallas
How about this for a different design? I found it in my 1840 Broadwood & Sons square piano last weekend while I was removing the strings. It was wedged between the (half) plate and the bridge, under the stringing braid, where I could not see it until I removed those strings. The pin on the right is from my "normal" square, and it's associated tuning hammer.

Even in a 168 year old pinblock, it was all I could do to turn most of the pins with this thing using one hand....some took both hands! Surprisingly, very few were loose enough to just turn them out easily.

[Linked Image]

T

Re: Oddball Tuning Hammer Designs #629922
08/28/08 01:50 PM
08/28/08 01:50 PM
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 2,481
Niagara Region, On. Canada
Emmery Offline
2000 Post Club Member
Emmery  Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 2,481
Niagara Region, On. Canada
God, that feels painful just to look at, you would have to have arms like Popeye to turn that...oops.


Piano Technician
George Brown College /85
Niagara Region
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