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I am not a technician however I would like some info so that I can describe my issues to a tech.

I am having a problem with my Pearl River UP108 console.

I bought it in August of 07 it got a free tuning from the dealer shortly after the acclimation period.

Well here is the issue I'm having with some of the keys.

There are two problems:

From A1 to A3 the let off is off . Its so bad that if I depress the key firmly the hammer actually remains on the string. Muffling the tone or as I like to call it a hammer damper.

Another issue I am having is on some of the aforementioned keys they make a tapping noise when depressed.

About 3/4 of the way down the key just seems to feel like it becomes free from the weight of the action and falls down making a tapping noise against the keybed.

I've read elsewhere that this tapping can cause excessive wear on the action and that it should be corrected as soon as possible.

My question is does this mean that this piano needs a regulation?

The term regulation has confused me because many technicians seem to have their own interpretation of what it means.

Would adjusting the let off qualify as a regulation or a partial regulation?

I would like to tell a tech specifically what needs to be done so that I can get a ballpark figure.

While I'm still searching for a tech and will be making some calls I will probably go with someone from the PTG.

Rather then the dealers guy whos attitude I didn't like very much.

Thanks for any help you can offer.

1. The let off can very easily be re-adjusted. Just make a list like you have here and present it to him. Your descriptive abilites should lean him easily towards the right direction to understand and repair it.

2. The tapping sounds like maybe the key bed is knocking. Just tell him that.

3. The feel of less weight could be when the damper is off from the strings or close to its height, lessening the amount of weight on the key... It could also be that something is binding like the knuckle perhaps could have a bit to much friction. Then when the jack trips it may be giving you that feel of extra release.

4. Yes. Regulation is needed. Things have probably settled a lot, to much maybe. The key-bed will need to be fitted first. Have him check the knuckles for friction and release. Of course, it sounds like you are going to tell him these things on your first phone call so he can plan his time accordingly.

5. Sometimes, dealers cover these sorts of things to keep the customer happy. And no, you do not need to use only the dealers tuners.

Was this piano purchased new? If that is the case, it should be under warranty. It might not be a bad idea to put up with the dealer's tech and save yourself some cash.

If the results are not satisfactory, contact the distributor for your area.

Sorry, Marty, but this smells to high heaven of NDPS: No Dealer Prep Syndrome. I'd cut the strings to the dealer and find my own tech.

And have no fear, Kenny--your piano isn't falling apart. But it does need some attention. Is this the second tuning? How has the tuning held?

The hammer symptoms you describe do not indicate a let off problem to me. They indicate that the catcher could be pushing the hammer into the strings - either too much after-touch or incorrect catcher adjustment. Not that this should matter to you - you just need a tech to check it out.

I have rarely heard of upright key frames knocking and needing bedding - they are screwed down!

Maybe the front rail punchings were omitted - that would account for both problems!!

On a piano this new, I think that the first call shoould go to the dealer, giving him a chance to make things right. Don't obsess, it will turn out fine...

Yes that was the second tuning and its held well.

I intend to have it tuned twice a year.

I've read that the best time to do it is in the Winter when the heat comes on (dries the soundboard out) and in the Spring when the humidity returns.

This piano was bought new and I guess that its like a new car you have to work all of the kinks out of it.

I'll give the dealer a call and see what happens.

Fingers crossed :rolleyes: .

Kenny, it should be under warranty. Perhaps you could ask if the dealer could send someone else. Or if the technician you find via PTG or elsewhere may be able to get the dealer's permission to do the warranty work. When you're calling around, ask the technicians if they will do that.
All that said, I might be misunderstanding, but your description of the symptoms are a little suspicious. Are all the notes "blocking" from A1 to A3? The symptoms are not uncommon but yours seem extreme. Has this been gradual or did the problems start all at once?
Could foreign objects have gotten inside the piano? No, not migrant workers. Pencils, Christmas cards, coins. Are there children in the house? These are questions I would ask you if you called me.
One way or another, I would get it looked at soon, it sounds like the piano is unplayable.

Unfortunately there are no kids here to blame it on .

This didn't start yesterday it was gradual.

I just rechecked it yes A1 through A3 block but I forgot to mention if the key is depressed slowly then this won't happen.

But when I depress the keys in question quickly the strings ring out like the liberty bell.

The hammers seem to get closer and closer to the strings with the key depressed. Starting at B4 down on to A3 where the hammers block.

Sorry Kenny,

I have to admit reading your post to quickly last night. I was to going to run up to bed shortly after that.. I thought it was a grand piano. Sorry about that. The guy's were great at jumping in to correct that.

Re: that tapping noise. That can be many things. One of them being the jack slapping on something on a harder blow upon releasing from the butt. Or, on some pianos, yes even new ones, I've encountered the key bottoming out on the front pin just enough for a tapping sound but, it could be something else too and just yesterday, I ran into a brand new Kawai UST-9 that had tremendous "key pulley." Front to back movement. That will also create odd sounds when the keys are played.

The piano will stay in tune longer if you wait to tune it until after the heat has been turned on for about 3 weeks.

The blocking could be to much aftertouch, key depth too deep in that area A1-A3. This is something I run into frequently on new pianos. Many times I find that the piano wasn't prepped at all prior to delivery. Uncrated and shipped out. But, quite fixable.

I'll try and read slower next time..

Kenny,

Several of the Pearl River uprights I've seen have had balance rail swelling or shrinking, which can cause all kinds of regulation problems from bobbling notes to blocking strings. These problems can be fixed relatively easily. I'd wager that nothing is broken, as others have said. Just unprepped.

It isn't just your piano or Pearl Rivers that can develop these symptoms. I've seen the same issues in expensive German uprights as well.

Have a tech look at it, and keep us posted!

Kenny, I'm glad to hear that you are planning to call the dealer. As Artisan mentioned, you have the opportunity to request a different tech.

As to the comment by JDelmore, the problem could very well be due to lack of proper prep. Jerry also indicated this. But why should any consumer have to pay out-of-pocket for service that should be covered under warranty?

Marty,

Unfortunately, many dealers don't prep pianos very well. Tune (or not!) and ship. Regulation problems are not usually considered a defect in manufacturing or workmanship, they are considered a maintenance issue--even when notes malfunction. But most reputable dealers will correct the sort of problems Kenny is having.

It's in everyone's best interests to have a properly prepped piano. If the pianos play poorly and are unstable, word gets around that the manufacturer is making crummy instruments, the dealer is selling them, and the tech who works on them sucks because he can't make it work right in the short period of time he has scheduled for the free service. No good for anyone.

It's an old battle. No resolution is in sight.

Dave,

I find this very interesting. I am not a tech, though I do have an interest in piano technology. For a moment, let's only look at this from the vantage point of the consumer and not even use the term requlation.

Wouldn't a new owner, whose piano is malfunctioning in any way, be justified in assuming that the problem would be corrected by the dealership if the warranty was still in effect?

If I were driving a car that was only a few months old and a rattle developed in a door, I would take it back to the dealership. It might only be a loose screw that needed to be "regulated." I would not expect to be billed for the repair, nor would I take it elsewhere and pay out of pocket to have the door torn apart. My assumption would be that this was a fault of original workmanship. It makes no difference to me if it is a Yugo or a BMW, the problem should still be corrected by the dealership.

I am not trying to be cantankerous, but trying to understand why a dealer should be let off the hook so easily.

Kenny seems to have some technical knowledge, but sometimes going dumb might be the best approach. "Hey, you guys sold me this piano and now some keys are acting strange" might be the best approach with the dealer.

Oh, by the way, I'm not a DIYer. Though I find the inner workings of my piano to be very interesting, I leave the work to my trusted R.P.T. If I had just purchased an new Whatever & Sons and had a sticky key, I wouldn't pull the action, I would pick up the phone and call Slick Marvin's Piano Emporium to get it fixed. They sold it, they should darn well stand behind it.

Hi Marty,

I agree with you and Dave completely. I do expect the warranty should cover these items. The dealers here do cover them. I don't even ask for permission to correct it. In fact, I gave up contacting the dealer first. You rarely hear back. So, I just do it and then bill them for it with no questions asked. They know I'm not going to screw them anyway.

I asked them about that one time though and received this answer. "Brand X figures that it is probably a lot cheaper (I'm not quite sure I find the logic there) for them to let a few things go and then just let the tech in the field service it billing the dealer for it." One time fix I suppose?

I prefer fixing the piano myself anyway rather than sending them back to the dealer. In my cases anyway, far to often, I have to return and fix it later anyway because the dealers tuners were more interested in getting in and getting out not solving the problem. For example, I had one of their guys come in one time to regulate 5 pianos, - warranty issues. Know how long it took him? 2 hours. He should have been there all day. I went back and checked it. It wasn't any differnt than it was before so, I fixed it myself and billed them for it. Nuts huh?

Not a DYI'er? Phew! For a minute there Marty, I thought we were going to have to BARK at you! lol, just kidding..

Marty,

Sometimes dealers have a hard time taking responsibility, even when they should. If they don't, then it won't help their business any in the long run. Word travels fast, especially in the internet age.

Here's how I see it: if it's a new piano and the dealer did not do the recommended prep in store, then it's up to them to deal with issues like this that might pop up in the customer's home. If the piano has material or workmanship issues, then it should be up to the manufacturer, as most warrantees state.

If a dealer sells a product, he should be responsible for taking care of warranty issues because by selling a product, he represents the manufacturer. If notes are failing for whatever reason on a new instrument, even though there might be a loophole to get out of doing anything about it, getting it fixed should be a high priority of the dealer.

If you're in business and your customer satisfaction rate is low, I guarantee you won't be in business for long!

If you took my comment to mean that the dealer should be 'let off the hook', then it's simple miscommunication. I meant it in more of a "good riddance to bad rubbish" sense. As you see from the other comments, dealers are all over the map in terms of prep, regulation, and taking responsibility. So, without knowing this particular dealer, I think I'd have to backpedal a bit, and say that you were right, and the dealer should be given the chance to do the right thing. Even though they didn't take the first chance...

Thanks John. I don't think any consumer should let themselves be screwed by any merchant or dealer. That is why I suggested contacting the factory rep if there was a problem.

After the process, if I still feel wronged, my first call would be to the Better Business Bureau, then, and only then would I cut my losses and employ an independent contractor.

Thankfully, I have only had to do this once and it was in reference with a car. I no longer drive that brand and was not shy about spreading the word about the shoddy treatment from the dealer and the manufacturer. It may be coincidence, but the dealer is no longer in business.

Word of mouth can, indeed, build or break a business.