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If all you have to do is come in here and complain AGAIN Stilamazed, after a full week, it's time that you just up and leave. Most people are here to help and do the best they can but when people like you pop in to intentionally keep a problem going by intentionally being obnoxious then yes, it is time for you to fine another playground to reside in.

Spellcheck might add some credibility to yer posts.

Best of luck wherever you go.

Dave, I too, like correct spelling but be aware that most "spellcheck" programs are mostly American diction based. As a Canadian I would spell words closer to the British/English way ( cheque/check, labour/labor, behaviour/behavior ect..) If you wanted to be absolutely precise...the British/Oxford Dictionary spelling would be the most accurate since that is where your "borrowed" and altered language originated. I do agree with you about the rest of Stilamazed spelling however...lol.
I am willing to share my knowledge/experience of pianos with others without fear of loss of business, because this is a "hands on" profession.
I honestly believe that some people are inherently not mechanically/logically inclined. Knowledge only gives these people a slight help, they will still strip threads, break parts and mis-diagnose causes because its just not in them, and their personality is more suited to being an artist or hairdresser or something less mechanically challenging. I know some people that could simply watch a pianos action work and have the ability to figure out its problem by comparing it to the working note beside it. I also know of people in this profession for 20+ years that are more or less clueless. Some DIY's have the ability apply themselves with good results so I leave the choice to them, with adequate warnings.
I don't believe our profession was meant to incorporate a protection racket mentality, we should all let our work speak for us. Reminds me of the old Kung-Fu Masters that would teach everything but a few select moves...to keep their students from turning on them and kicking their butts one day.

Dave, I too, like correct spelling but please be aware that most "spellcheck" programs are mostly American diction based. As a Canadian I would spell words closer to the British/English way ( cheque/check, labour/labor, behaviour/behavior ect..) If you wanted to be absolutely precise...the British/Oxford Dictionary spelling would be the most accurate since that is where your "borrowed" and altered language originated. I do agree with you about the rest of Stilamazed spelling however...lol.
I am willing to share my knowledge/experience of pianos with others without fear of loss of business, because this is a "hands on" profession.
I honestly believe that some people are inherently not mechanically/logically inclined. Knowledge only gives these people a slight help, they will still strip threads, break parts and mis-diagnose causes because its just not in them, and their personality is more suited to being an artist or hairdresser or something less mechanically challenging. I know some people that could simply watch a pianos action work and have the ability to figure out its problem by comparing it to the working note beside it. I also know of people in this profession for 20+ years that are more or less clueless. Some DIY's have the ability apply themselves with good results so I leave the choice to them, with adequate warnings.
I don't believe our profession was meant to incorporate a protection racket mentality, we should all let our work speak for us. Reminds me of the old Kung-Fu Masters that would teach everything but a few select moves...to keep their students from turning on them and kicking their butts one day.

sorry bout the multiposts, server kept saying it didn't post.

It's discouraging...

I guess the best (only) thing I can do is to join the PTG, even if I can not attend the meetings (It's too expensif for me to go to the US and I had problems to get the visa). At least I will have the journal and special discounts. And maybe I would find some friends there, who agree to help a beginer. (That´s what I am :a beginer, not a DIYer, maybe a fool).

Here there are nice guys, like Bill Bremmer, Ron Koval, UprightTooner, Jim Coleman, and many others (excuse me if I don't mention all the names explicitly, but everyone knows who is nice and who is not) who are interested in talking with us, and helping us, neophytes of the piano technology. They accept to lose or waste their time to teach people like me, without reward. Only for the pleasure to share their knowledge.

Excuse me if I ever asked stupid questions, or got you upset by pretending to do things that were out of my reach. If I did it was unintentionaly.

Thanks a lot for your help.

Rafael Melo (Gadzar)
rafaelmelo@prodigy.net.mx
www.paginasprodigy.com.mx/solraczaid

Sigh... Here we go again...

I can only speak for myself. Like Rickster, I'm just an enthusiast. I got an old clunker of an upright and have been slowly re-"whatever"-ing it for the last 3 years.

Reblitz is great, but often isn't specific enough for a blunderer like me - so I research, research, research. I lurk on the PTG list - actually, just read/search the archives, I'm not going to bother the techs there, just "listen" to their shop talk.

I've done a fair amount of work to the old beast - and its starting to actually sound like a musical instrument again. I've also had to do things over, 'cause I didn't do it right the first time, blah, blah, blah.

I have a "real" tech do my tunings - there's just no way I want to even attempt that. Way too tedious. I also have him do stuff that I feel is beyond my capacity or that screwing up would be a very expensive mistake (like reshaping hammers for instance). My tech has been a wonderful help to me, telling me what I've done right, as well as what I've screwed up and need to do again.

In fact, he's coming in about 6 weeks to tune; and review everything I've done since he was last here. After much reading/research, I risked steam voicing my "rock hard impossible to needle" hammers with seeming good results. He emailed me a "good job with the voicing" - but I'm waiting until he sees/hears what I did before I attempt anything more. I'm also going to have him needle/voice the 3 notes above the break that are just driving me nuts and I'm afraid to do anything more to them at my level of (in)experience!

I have, on RARE occasion, asked for advice here, and gotten good advice. There's no way I'd call Jurgen an idiot for sure! And I've always made it quite clear (I hope!) that I'm a DIYer! BTW, its DIY (D)o (I)t (Y)ourself; not DYI, unless that means (D)o (Y)ourself (I)n - which may be appropriate.

I mess around with the old beast because I love mechanical things - not to save money or to deny any tech a living. If I didn't want to tinker with my own piano, I would have bought a new(er) one!

I had one lady I work with just *INSIST* that I look at her wretched Gulbransen spinet. I told her that I wasn't a tech, blah, blah, and after I look at it, I'm going to tell you to call one. So after I looked at this train wreck (tuning pins so loose that they'd rotate my tuning hammer by themselves), I told her what I saw was wrong with it, what the options probably were to fix it, and to - you guessed it - call a tech! Like my tech, here's his card...

I've stated before that I'm in favor of a DIY, or "ask a tech" forum, I just think it would be win-win for everyone, and less angst for the techs who don't want to interact with us DIYers, for whatever reason. But that's just my opinion.

As for physical stats, I'm 6'0, ride my Biria 3 speed 8+ miles round trip every day, am a Belly Dancer and can bench press a four yard silk veil!

Hi Zormpus,

Nice post. I saw your picture with your Belly Dancing outfit on over on the Piano forum. Did I notice that your toe nails were painted?

Just wondering.

Best regards,

Rickster

Of course they're painted - I'm a Belly Dancer. It my job to be beautiful and exotic - as strange as that may sound for a male in the last several centuries. I also wear tons of makeup (when performing), but I don't think I had any on when that picture was taken though.

Ah, fools...

Robert Frost said that a woman takes twenty years making her boy into a man, and another woman takes twenty minutes to make him into a fool.

The same, perhaps, goes for computers and pianos...

As for the Z-man and his make-up...

Well, I just recently watched the Little Richard movie (forgot the name...)--"So they want to call me a sissy 'cause I wear make-up? Fine, as long as they call me a RICH sissy!!"

Some say "Whatever makes ya happy." Some say "It's all good." Here in la Louisiane, we say "Laissez les bon temps rouler!!"

Well, not that I am referring to anyone on this forum or in this particular thread, but I heard an old saying once that says “it is better to be thought a fool than to open one’s mouth and remove all doubt” (Anonymous) .

I suppose we all say or do foolish things from time to time. For example, just today I was asked to play the piano for a large group of Rotary club members who were having a luncheon at the college where I teach. Like a fool, I agreed to play the piano . I guess I come out okay, I didn’t get any tomatoes thrown at me after about 45 minutes of playing; and, I got a free lunch out of the deal .

Best regards,

Rickster

Rickster,

Quote: “it is better to be thought a fool than to open one’s mouth and remove all doubt” (Anonymous)

Rickster I am surprised at this from you. Here is the origins of this statement.

“Even a fool, when he holdeth his peace, is counted wise: and he that shutteth his lips is esteemed a man of understanding. -- Bible, 'Proverbs' 17:28.”

More here:

“ It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt .” -- George Eliot.

Now, a lot of people have been credited with a variation of this statement. Abe Lincoln, Mark Twain, Will Rogers, Ben Franklin.

Indeed the Church wanted Galileo to say precisely this, that this was a mere supposition for convenience of calculation (a “hypothesis” in the parlance of time)……… he refused…. He thought it was literal and the absolute truth………….

Good post, Dan.

The reason I listed the source of the quote as anonymous is because I didn’t remember who actually said it and didn’t have the time to research it. So, I do indeed stand corrected.

Like I said, I hang around this forum because there are many here who are much smarter than I am, yourself included .

The problem with my 45 minute mini piano concert last Thursday was that the darn 1980’s Chickering/Baldwin baby grand was out of tune. Wish I could have tuned it before I played it .

Great post!

Have a great weekend!

Rick

Two blonds walk into a Piano Store.
You'd think one of them would have seen it?

What's wrong with people DIY-ing their pianos. I'm sure some great technicians started out that way.

We're all here because we love pianos. Let's just have fun with it. If you get in over your head, hire a professional. No shame in that.

The mind just boggles at the sight of some professionals who are afraid of some amateurs asking questions about their respective expertise. Part of being a professional, surely, includes the ability to handle the existence of competition in the market place, regardless of how big or small it happens to be.

In this case potential competitions is not even real and yet some professional here are freaking out for even being spoken to by people who just want to know how to overcome problems they might have with their pianos.

I guess these same people will have a heart attack if a real person came to them and told them in their face that they are going to copy their expertise and establish open competition in their respective area of practice.

Get a grip, all of you, and stop sliding down the poll of your professional behavior in forums a and/or real life.

Maserman, you are fortunate in your experience as an aircraft engineer that a DIYer in your field would most likely not live through his so called quick fix. There are situations with a piano that does not require specific technical expertise, and common sense with a bit of correct information is all thats required. Take for example a pencil dropped in through the top of an upright piano. I see no harm done in explaining that there is a bottom door that can easily be removed and the pencil would most likely be found there if its not caught up in the strings or action. I do find it somewhat unethical to hold back this advice if asked, simply to make some quick money off a service call. There are people out there that pay 60$ for service man to light their pilot light on the furnace and then there are people who find out how to do it themselves.

Yeah, and I see that you're usually first in line to give all of the answers too Mr. G.

Emmery, the problem isn't locating a pencil in a piano, the problem is when someone can't find the pencil or, screws around with a tuning pin and other things and messes it up. Most only want to avoid that pitfall.

I agree with you Jerry on what your saying but I would bet a small sum that some of the best DIYers with sound mechanical knowledge and common sense would do less damage to their pianos then many of the worst piano techs out there(RPT or not).
As an example, one of the several pre-entry tests at my piano tech school 23 years ago was to take a piece of wire and bend it into a shape that was drawn to an undisclosed scale(relative to wire length)on a piece of paper. We were not allowed to cut the wire. Only about 1 in 10 people could figure out how to determine the scale ratio and bend the wire to match the shape. Some people were so overwhelmed that they just walked out. Now look at some schools and online courses where the only criteria is coming up with the tuition fees. It is no wonder that I see and have to fix things in pianos that were screwed up by "Techs" lacking common sense, sound mechanical knowledge,aptitude and integrity. I certainly wouldn't advise how to re-string or re-pin a block but to tell someone what kind of glue to use and how to reinstall a damper felt that fell off is not beyond the capabilities of a decent DIYer. Sometimes its just knowledge thats needed and other times it requires skill and aptitude along with it.

We had a person here one time that had taken a piano tuning and rebuilding course in a very well known university with a very well known technician running that university's course so, I won't name it. This person decided to move into Grand Rapids Michigan and started advertising as an RPT in the Yellow Pages and elsewhere before she had even taken any RPT exams.

She obviously didn't realize that the title of RPT is also patented and illegal to use if you are not one.

She got called on it and was forced to either take the exam and pass or to pull her yellow pages ad. She said, no problem, I took so and so's course. I can pass that exam with flying colors. I rebuilt 1 piano during this course as a requirement! That's why I placed my "ads" all around.

Ok, great we said. So we set up the date. She was as surprised as we were at how miserably she failed all of her tests. Not only in tuning, but she didn't even come close in all technical aspects as well.

I thought to myself, this is such as shame to pay that much money for that course coming out of it with that type of attitude and very little real pertinent knowledge.

That tells me that someone out there is giving this course and then is handing out pieces of paper telling these people that they are great technicians now able to do anything (apparently) when in fact, they are not. They need to be told that on going learning never ends.

So, you're right in that so many tuners out there shouldn't be in this business at all and many others could care less about learning anything more either or finding out if they know enough.