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#622888 - 06/07/01 03:45 PM coilers  
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 5
Jason Offline
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Jason  Offline
Junior Member

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 5
how do I use a hand-held coil maker? Thanks a lot confused

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#622889 - 06/08/01 07:50 AM Re: coilers  
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 4,612
Bob Offline
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Bob  Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 4,612
Florida
Assuming you mean the device to coil the string around the tuning pin while stringing a piano, the proceedure is as follows:

Insert tuning pin in the hole in cylinder, top side up and adjust the screw at the bottom of the cylinder so the hole in the tuning pin is just above the top of the cylinder. Lock screw in place.

Insert piano wire into hole in tuning pin flush with other side of pin. Wire should not stick out other side of pin.

Position wire so it rests against right side of small screw at top of cylinder.

Put tuning pin crank on to tuning pin, and turn pin clockwise about 2 1/2 turns.

Wire will wind neatly around tuning pin.

Remove tuning pin from cylinder and pound into pinblock

#622890 - 06/09/01 02:09 AM Re: coilers  
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 5
Jason Offline
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Jason  Offline
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Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 5
Thanks a lot for your help. I have another question; Is there any way to fix a bridge with small cracks in it near the bridge pins without having to replace the cap or the pins? There probably is no easy way to do this but thanks anyway. Jason

#622891 - 06/10/01 09:53 PM Re: coilers  
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Bob Offline
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Bob  Offline
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Florida
Well, you can fill the cracks with epoxy, but it can get messy. I've seen super glue used instead, but it really isn't strong enough to work. The black stuff on the bridge is called dag, and comes in a bottle from the supply house. You can mix this with the epoxy to create a black patching material. If you use a small screwdriver to apply it to the cracks and have a cloth handy to wipe off any excess, you should be ok

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#622892 - 06/10/01 11:37 PM Re: coilers  
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Posts: 5
Jason Offline
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Jason  Offline
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Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 5
That's a really good idea, thanks. I have another question (I'm just full of questions); how might I go about re-bronzing a plate? Thanks alot for your help, Jason

#622893 - 06/29/01 12:19 PM Re: coilers  
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9
Don Affleck Offline
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Don Affleck  Offline
Junior Member

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9
Kelowna, British Columbia, Can...
Jason,

If you use epoxy to repair the bridge, the excess can easily be removed by brushing it with lacquer thinner. The lacquer thinner dissolves the epoxy making it easy to clean up.

On re-bronzing a plate - you can simply wash the plate down with soap & water ( after it is removed from the piano), then spray it with a gold lacquer spray bomb. You could also re-do the lettering with a fine brush & black enamel.

#622894 - 01/09/02 03:10 AM Re: coilers  
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 62
Camlotshadow Offline
Full Member
Camlotshadow  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 62
CA
Hi,
Does patching a bass bridge require removing the strings.

Stupid question? [Linked Image]

Any comments on my bridge?

[ January 09, 2002: Message edited by: Littlebit ]

#622895 - 01/09/02 09:08 AM Re: coilers  
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 128
PNO2NER Offline
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PNO2NER  Offline
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Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 128
Traverse City, MI
The bridge pictured is a good candidate for superglue repair. The cracking and splitting is apparent, but has not progress to a point where it is not repairable. Loosen each bass tuning pin about 1 turn leaving the string connected. Starting with the lowest string, remove each one from its hitch pin. Keep them in order by stringing them one by one on a piece of heavy wire. A coathanger will do. Remove all the bridge pins and keep handy for re-use. Starting at one end of the bridge, using medium thickness cyanoacrylate adhesive (super glue available at hobby shops) squeeze enough in one hole at a time to fill the hole. Then with a small hammer, lightly tap the pin back into the hole to the same as original height. This will squeeze the glue into the crack where it solidifies and restores the integrity of the bridge. Clean off excess as you go, as it dries quickly. I have repaired over 20 of these this way with success in every case. If you want a video on the procedure, go to www.ptg.org where you will find it. Of course, replace all the strings in order, being careful to give each string a twist in the direction of the windings before installing on the hitch pin. This will minimize buzzing noises from the bass strings. Good Luck!

#622896 - 01/09/02 09:49 AM Re: coilers  
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 635
SamLewisPiano.com Offline
500 Post Club Member
SamLewisPiano.com  Offline
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 635
WHITE BLUFF (Nashville area) T...
I'm in agreement with PNO2NER. Just want to add that you can get the epoxy or superglue to flow better by gently heating the bridge (use a hair dryer) prior to adding the glue.......Sam


Since 1975; Full-time piano tuner/tech in Nashville;
Lacquer and polyester specialist.

www.SamLewisPiano.com
#622897 - 01/09/02 12:04 PM Re: coilers  
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 62
Camlotshadow Offline
Full Member
Camlotshadow  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 62
CA
Thanks so you actually fill the holes with the glue and reset the pins.
Does this effect the sound as the pins are now totally soldered in a glue?

I am hesitant to do anything at this point but I am considering in the future.
I just had the piano tuned yesterday so I'll just see how she stays tuned and deal with it before/ during the next tuning.

It almost looks like it would be better if you could get a syringe with an appropriate
glue and with a needle fill the crack between
the pins. Does anyone know the plausibility of this?

She's an old piano and was tuned already at A438 so it was tuned there.
Please forgive me for repeating myself as I have not read the other posts yet but could tuning a piano to A438 that was designed (most likely) for A435 have caused additional stress enough to have caused this crack or are they unrelated?

Thanks

#622898 - 01/10/02 06:59 AM Re: coilers  
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 128
PNO2NER Offline
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PNO2NER  Offline
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Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 128
Traverse City, MI
Hi Littlebit: The cracking between the bridge pins in almost every case is caused by the piano being exposed to a heat source at some time in its life. Higher string tension would not be the reason. The high temperature (and accompanying low humidity) has dried the wood and caused it to shrink and crack. Your idea of injecting adhesive with a syringe sounds good, but may not be very effective in getting down deep into the cracks. Certainly better than nothing. Don't worry about the pins being permanently "welded" into the bridge, thats what you want-a good bond between pin and bridge to effectively transmit the vibrations of the strings into the bridge and on into the soundboard. Looking at your picture closely, I would estimate that this condition has existed for years, and may not get appreciably worse for many more. At this point I would go into "watchful neglect" mode. Examine the area a couple of times a year, and if it gets worse, then take measures to correct. I would tune the piano to A440, the slight difference in string tension will have little or no effect especially in the bass area, and you will be playing at standard pitch.

#622899 - 01/10/02 11:56 AM Re: coilers  
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 62
Camlotshadow Offline
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Camlotshadow  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 62
CA
That's welcome advice, I'll have to get that digital humidity gauge from radio shack and see what I have. I live in southern CA in the SF valley which is not too coastal and on the dry side. I estimate and hope I have the ideal conditions humidty wise 35-45 %.
If it's really off I'll hhave to see what I can do to keep the piano stable.

She was built in Montreal and must have spent half of her life there since I found a 1964 canadian penny under the keyboard, then she probably had her life in California.
I am not familiar with Montreal climate and don't know how bad it is on pianos. The piano has been well taken care off upon physical inspection and it was exceptionably
clean even the hammers for it's age.
Also the strings are shiny with no rust as are all the metal parts.

So lets hope I can squeeze more life out of her. She still sounds good to me. I like the A 438 I might stay with it. It might lend a mellow round tone not as bright. Is there much perceptable difference between 438 and 440? The tuner said it would cost two tuners to get it up to 440 does this sound correct?

Thanks for the help smile

Littlebit

#622900 - 01/11/02 07:55 AM Re: coilers  
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 128
PNO2NER Offline
Full Member
PNO2NER  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 128
Traverse City, MI
Hi Again: Sounds like you have a winner there, many older pianos are far superior to those produced today. The environment within a home where a piano resides is equally as important as the climate outside. So, you may never know what the conditions were that the piano saw. 438 to 440 is about an 8% change in pitch, slightly noticeable to the trained ear, however if the whole piano is tuned that way, it's not noticeable until another instrument or recording at 440 is played along with it. It is common to raise pitch even further than this, what the technician is saying is that it won't be stable and stay in tune for a good length of time until two tunings have been done. Strings tend to stretch and drift back to where they started. Stay with it...

#622901 - 01/11/02 04:38 PM Re: coilers  
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 62
Camlotshadow Offline
Full Member
Camlotshadow  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 62
CA
Hi,

Thanks, this is my first piano and tuning.
My parents never tuned the old player piano I learned on. This piano according to the tech appeared to be tuned to 438 and wasn't too out of tune. So my guess it had been tuned less than 20 years ago. LOL

I don't know the logistics of tuning but maybe this tech meant he'd bring it up to 439
and than to 440. The strings still look almost new but they may be very old. Probably
70 years old so maybe it's best to leave them. he also said the pianos of it's age were probably designed for 435 so I am happy with 438.

I'm sure if it were a newer piano you might raise it all at once. If he would have tried to raise it to 440 is it possible I might have had a problem. It won't be recorded with
other instruments so it is ok with me.

Thanks for the advice,
Littlebit

also have to remember bassbridge problem wink

[Linked Image]

[ January 11, 2002: Message edited by: Littlebit ]


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