Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Piano Tuner-Technicians Forum tokiwa shanks or remmer shanks; is one better?

Dear Techs,

In looking at the purchase of a rebuilt intstrument I see some using Renner shanks and some using Tokiwa shanks.

I understand that the Tokiwa is about one half the cost of the Renner.

MOST rebuilds I have encountered use Renner.

Which is better?

Why?

Regards,
Newstead

Newstead,

Neither is inherently better enough to make a difference in the end result. The skills of the technician doing the work matters much more than any minor differences between the parts maker.

Ops, I ment to say renner NOT remmer shanks.

Thanks Don, I am wondering about the quality of a rebuilt instrument I am looking at.

The soundboard was not replaced.

The bridgework is listed as: repinning, resealing, filing.

And the piano shop offering the piano says that they chose the Tokiwa shanks rather than the Renner "because of the economics".

Should I be passing on this rebuild because the primary consideration of the owners of the piano seems to have been how cheaply job could be done for?

I wonder..... :rolleyes:

When I replaced my hammers and shanks in October, I talked to a few techs about this and the concensus was that either were fine. So I ordered Tokiwa. I had no issues with quality at all on arrival. Good materials and good execution for much less than the Renner.

They are both high quality products and either one when used by a tech who knows what he/she is doing will produce excellent results. I have been using Tokiwa parts for years in my pianos and both myself and my customers have been very satisfied with them.

If there is any significant cost difference between Tokiwa and Renner it's in the retail markup that the technician or rebuilder is charging. The wholesale prices that we techs pay from Renner USA and from Pacific Piano who distributes Tokiwa have not been significantly different. The latest price increase from Renner USA makes the Renner parts now more expensive than the comparable Tokiwa parts, but not by so much that I would consider economics an issue in using Tokiwa parts. For example a set of Tokiwa shanks from Pacific Piano costs me $310. With the latest price increase a set of shanks from Renner USA is $364. Not enough of a difference to make price an issue for me.

I have come to prefer the Tokiwa hammers over the Renner Blues for rebuilding vintage American pianos primarily because they are lighter weight and secondarily because they not as hard and easier to voice. Of the many Steinways that I have rebuilt in years gone by and still tune regularly I have one model O that I used Renner Blues in and the rest either Tokiwa or Abel hammers. I find the one with the Renners to have a darker sound that I don't like quite as well as the rest that have the Tokiwa or Abel hammers.

Niles Duncan
Piano rebuilder, Pasadena, CA
www.pianosource.com

The set of Tokiwa I got from Pacific was just under $200 last October. Have prices changed that much or should I just be happy I got a good deal? Between Tokiwa shanks from Pacific and Wurzenfelts from Ronsen, I was out just $477, shipping and all. I was very happy on that point, and even moreso with the results.

Niles,

It's good to see you posting here again. I missed reading your comments.

JP

To ChickGrand:
You got a good deal. They changed some of their materials in the Tokiwa parts last fall. Randy probably gave you a big discount on a set of the older production parts when the new stuff came in.

Niles Duncan
Piano rebuilder, Pasadena, CA
www.pianosource.com

Niles, thank you very much for your informative post. Indeed it does not seem that the price of parts should have that great of an affect of the choice a rebuilder would make.

The comment from the rebuilder that the choice of Tokiwa over Renner was made because they were cheaper is an indication that the piano dealer did not know much about the rebuild he had received.

I did have an opportunity to inspect the piano and it was certainly a very poor rebuild.

I appreciate knowing that the choice of shank manufacturer was not a contirbuting factor in the poor quality of the rebuild.

Newstead