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Double strike, double hit, hammer bounce . . . #621908
06/04/08 03:22 PM
06/04/08 03:22 PM
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What worn or out of adjustment part of a Renner grand piano action would randomly allow a hammer to strike a string twice for one key depression?


Regards,

Bob
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Re: Double strike, double hit, hammer bounce . . . #621909
06/04/08 03:29 PM
06/04/08 03:29 PM
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Jerry Groot RPT Offline
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Grand? Upright? Age?

Usually, it's a regulation issue.


Jerry Groot RPT
Piano Technicians Guild
Grand Rapids, Michigan
www.grootpiano.com

We love to play BF2.
Re: Double strike, double hit, hammer bounce . . . #621910
06/04/08 04:24 PM
06/04/08 04:24 PM
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Most


Professional of the profession.
Foo Foo specialist
I wish to add some kind and sensitive phrase but nothing comes to mind.!
Re: Double strike, double hit, hammer bounce . . . #621911
06/04/08 04:26 PM
06/04/08 04:26 PM
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And from an economical point of view, it is interesting, as you have 2 notes for the same price.


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Re: Double strike, double hit, hammer bounce . . . #621912
06/04/08 06:58 PM
06/04/08 06:58 PM
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Interesting replies, guys, but I was looking for a bit more specific information. It is intuitively obvious that there is something in the action that captures the hammer after it has struck the strings so it will not rebound and strike the strings again.

What part of the action is that?

To solve the double hit problem, would one adjust that part or something else?

In that regard, are they several adjustments each of which could cause the problem?

I don't intend to make the adjustment myself, but I'd like to learn more about the piano and what is involved in correcting the problem.

It is a grand piano.


Regards,

Bob
Re: Double strike, double hit, hammer bounce . . . #621913
06/04/08 07:06 PM
06/04/08 07:06 PM
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Get someone to regulate your piano. That is what it needs. There are too many possible specifics to cover here.


Semipro Tech
Re: Double strike, double hit, hammer bounce . . . #621914
06/04/08 07:11 PM
06/04/08 07:11 PM
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OK, I'll answer your question. Most likely:
Repetition springs set too strong, let off too close, drop, (in a grand), not properly set


Piano Technician/Tuner
Re: Double strike, double hit, hammer bounce . . . #621915
06/04/08 07:14 PM
06/04/08 07:14 PM
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Quote
Originally posted by CC2 and Chopin lover:
OK, I'll answer your question. Most likely:
Repetition springs set too strong, let off too close, drop, (in a grand), not properly set
Thanks. I'll do some more research so I understand exactly what you are saying and referring to.

Thanks again,

Bob


Regards,

Bob
Re: Double strike, double hit, hammer bounce . . . #621916
06/04/08 07:29 PM
06/04/08 07:29 PM
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Bob, don't be disappointed if, after your research, you still don't understand much of CC2's response. The best way to get some idea of what a technician will adjust is to sit in front of a cut-away action model while the whole regulation procedure is explained. A thorough explanation will take a lot of time. The modern grand piano action is quite complex!


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Re: Double strike, double hit, hammer bounce . . . #621917
06/04/08 08:07 PM
06/04/08 08:07 PM
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Grand Rapids Michigan
Jerry Groot RPT Offline
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Could be a ton of stuff. Shallow key depth, back checks to far back, repetition springs, let off TO close etc., etc.


Jerry Groot RPT
Piano Technicians Guild
Grand Rapids, Michigan
www.grootpiano.com

We love to play BF2.
Re: Double strike, double hit, hammer bounce . . . #621918
06/04/08 08:12 PM
06/04/08 08:12 PM
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Quote
Originally posted by David Jenson:
Bob, don't be disappointed if . . .
I've read a couple of different books on the action of a modern grand piano that take you through step-by-step, but I've never really studied it closely. I have an excellent book checked out of the libary that is supposedly the PTG text, and I'll see what I can learn from it.


Regards,

Bob
Re: Double strike, double hit, hammer bounce . . . #621919
06/05/08 03:23 PM
06/05/08 03:23 PM
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Quote
Originally posted by CC2 and Chopin lover:
Repetition springs set too strong, let off too close, drop, (in a grand), not properly set
Quote
Originally posted by Jerry Groot RPT:
Could be a ton of stuff. Shallow key depth, back checks to far back, repetition springs, let off TO close etc., etc.
My first impression was that the backcheck probably needed adjusting. The Arthur A. Reblitz book Piano Servicing, Tuning, & Rebuilding says that a double striking key in a grand piano during soft playing is likely repetition spring problem and during louder playing is likely a backcheck problem.

Since the double strike problem is random, sometimes during pianissimo passages and sometimes during forte passages, I would guess that it is a combination of the two. I have someone coming next week to both tune and fix the double strike problem. I will be interested to see what the solution turns out to be.


Regards,

Bob
Re: Double strike, double hit, hammer bounce . . . #621920
06/05/08 06:10 PM
06/05/08 06:10 PM
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Georgia, USA
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Hi Bob, and congratulations on your new-to-you Baldwin grand; it's a beauty!

By the way, by all means, let us know what your tech finds on the doublestriking issue; You've got my curiosity up smile .

Best regards,

Rickster


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Re: Double strike, double hit, hammer bounce . . . #621921
06/05/08 06:18 PM
06/05/08 06:18 PM
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Rick, et al.,

I will let you know both what the cause was and the cure is.


Regards,

Bob
Re: Double strike, double hit, hammer bounce . . . #621922
06/07/08 01:26 PM
06/07/08 01:26 PM
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east yorks,england
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like jerry said the most likely cause is a shallow key depth or more likely worn back check leather or the leather,hammer tail have become too smooth, polished.

Re: Double strike, double hit, hammer bounce . . . #621923
06/07/08 07:03 PM
06/07/08 07:03 PM
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Quote
Originally posted by eddie twang:
like jerry said the most likely cause is a shallow key depth or more likely worn back check leather or the leather,hammer tail have become too smooth, polished.
While those are all possibilities, it's a new piano so wear should not be a problem, and the key drop was supposedly checked before delivery.


Regards,

Bob
Re: Double strike, double hit, hammer bounce . . . #621924
06/08/08 01:05 PM
06/08/08 01:05 PM
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What worn or out of adjustment part of a Renner grand piano action would randomly allow a hammer to strike a string twice for one key depression?

Then, why did you ask and say the above? What WORN... Obviously, all we can do at a distance is guess anyway.

It could also be your fault. A penny or something else that has fallen underneath the key not allowing it to go down quite far enough, a pencil, paper clip... laugh


Jerry Groot RPT
Piano Technicians Guild
Grand Rapids, Michigan
www.grootpiano.com

We love to play BF2.
Re: Double strike, double hit, hammer bounce . . . #621925
06/08/08 02:04 PM
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Quote
Originally posted by Jerry Groot RPT:
What worn or out of adjustment part of a Renner grand piano action would randomly allow a hammer to strike a string twice for one key depression?

Then, why did you ask and say the above? What WORN... Obviously, all we can do at a distance is guess anyway.
Because I was not smart enough to say just "out of adjustment."

Quote
It could also be your fault. A penny or something else that has fallen underneath the key not allowing it to go down quite far enough, a pencil, paper clip...
While that is possible, it is unlikely. I was delivered on Monday and the problem was discovered that evening.


Regards,

Bob
Re: Double strike, double hit, hammer bounce . . . #621926
06/13/08 12:35 AM
06/13/08 12:35 AM
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Quote
Originally posted by Rickster:
By the way, by all means, let us know what your tech finds on the doublestriking issue; You've got my curiosity up.
And the answer is . . .


Repetition spring tension adjusted and problem goes away.


Regards,

Bob
Re: Double strike, double hit, hammer bounce . . . #621927
06/13/08 06:45 AM
06/13/08 06:45 AM
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What's my prize? laugh


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Re: Double strike, double hit, hammer bounce . . . #621928
06/13/08 08:41 AM
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Originally posted by CC2 and Chopin lover:
What's my prize? laugh
A year's free membership in the Piano World Forums with special posting privileges on the Piano Tuner-Technician's Forum.


Regards,

Bob
Re: Double strike, double hit, hammer bounce . . . #621929
06/13/08 08:45 AM
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