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Soy-based strippers? #621630
12/18/08 11:04 PM
12/18/08 11:04 PM
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 119
Lansing, MI
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b3groover Offline OP
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Lansing, MI
For clarification, the thread title refers to the kind of stripper that removes paint and varnish, not vegans who like to remove their clothes!!! eek

Has anyone used a soy-based stripper on a piano? My father always used that nasty chemical stuff that smells to high heaven. In remodeling my house, I've been using the citrus stuff, but it's rather ineffective compared to the normal, stinky stuff.

Supposedly the soy-based stuff works really well and doesn't smell. It's also biodegradeable. I have a couple of refinishing jobs scheduled for the spring and also more home projects. Just wondered if anyone had any experience with it?

http://www.franmar.com/product_info.php?cPath=21&products_id=114

Thanks!


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Jim Alfredson
Musician / Tuner
www.organissimo.org
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Re: Soy-based strippers? #621631
12/18/08 11:10 PM
12/18/08 11:10 PM
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,493
CT
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CTPianotech Offline
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I've no idea on this product. We've tried some of the 'eco friendly' stuff if the past.. no dice.

I tend to be very skeptical of anything that states "as seen on TV!"

Still, if someone comes up with an alternative to methylene chloride strippers, that works--I'm interested.


Rich Lindahl
Piano Restorations in Central CT
www.rivervalleypiano.com
Re: Soy-based strippers? #621632
12/18/08 11:49 PM
12/18/08 11:49 PM
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 119
Lansing, MI
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b3groover Offline OP
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Lansing, MI
I saw this on This Old House. It worked wonders there, taking off several layers of paint at a time.

I think I'll order a quart and see how it goes.


=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Jim Alfredson
Musician / Tuner
www.organissimo.org
Re: Soy-based strippers? #621633
12/19/08 12:08 AM
12/19/08 12:08 AM
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 5,534
Olympia, Washington
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Del Offline
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Olympia, Washington
We've been using a stripper called SOY-Gel:
http://www.franmar.com/

It is a bit slower than the really caustic stuff but it does work pretty well. Also, it doesn't stink and probably won't kill you if a drop or two splash on your skin.

ddf


Delwin D Fandrich
Piano Research, Design & Manufacturing Consultant
ddfandrich@gmail.com
(To contact me privately please use this e-mail address.)

Stupidity is a rare condition, ignorance is a common choice. --Anon
Re: Soy-based strippers? #621634
12/19/08 12:25 AM
12/19/08 12:25 AM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 852
San Francisco
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Peter Sumner- Piano Technician Offline
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Soy based strippers eh?
Nudge, nudge, wink, wink...know what I mean.


Peter Sumner
Concert Piano Technician


Re: Soy-based strippers? #621635
12/19/08 01:41 AM
12/19/08 01:41 AM
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 234
lawrence,KS
msks Offline
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lawrence,KS
First determine what type finish you are removing. Really old finishes will often scrape off pretty easy then needing one go with stripper to lift the stain. Newer things like lacquer are tougher. The type of solvent that cuts the finish tells you what it is. Also be sure what you get is fresh It does have a shelf life.

Re: Soy-based strippers? #621636
12/19/08 08:05 AM
12/19/08 08:05 AM
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 6,018
Bradford County, PA
UnrightTooner Offline
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Bradford County, PA
The info sheet does not claim it removes lacquer (or textiles, Peter).


Jeff Deutschle
Part-Time Tuner
Who taught the first chicken how to peck?
Re: Soy-based strippers? #621637
12/19/08 09:38 AM
12/19/08 09:38 AM
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 2,646
Strong, Maine
David Jenson Offline
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David Jenson  Offline
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Posts: 2,646
Strong, Maine
"Soy based strippers eh?
Nudge, nudge, wink, wink...know what I mean?" Peter Sumner

Yea. When I saw the topic I thought the forum had finally degenerated into something really racy with pictures and all, but Jim put that thought to rest with the last half of his first sentence. 'Durn!


David L. Jenson
Tuning - Repairs - Refurbishing
Jenson's Piano Service
-----
Re: Soy-based strippers? #621638
12/19/08 10:30 AM
12/19/08 10:30 AM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 852
San Francisco
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Peter Sumner- Piano Technician Offline
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 852
San Francisco
Next we'll have Soy based Lap Dancers!

Say no more, know what I mean eh?


Peter Sumner
Concert Piano Technician


Re: Soy-based strippers? #621639
12/19/08 02:12 PM
12/19/08 02:12 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 252
Billings, MT
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John Dutton Offline
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John Dutton  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 252
Billings, MT
Ya wicked Ay!


Piano Technician
Pro horn player
Recording Engineer
Re: Soy-based strippers? #621640
12/19/08 03:12 PM
12/19/08 03:12 PM
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 119
Lansing, MI
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b3groover Offline OP
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Lansing, MI
I don't think Soy-Gel removes stain, but I believe it does remove lacquer.

I have an upright coming in that is painted yellow. If it works on that, I'll be a happy man! smile


=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Jim Alfredson
Musician / Tuner
www.organissimo.org
Re: Soy-based strippers? #621641
12/19/08 04:42 PM
12/19/08 04:42 PM
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 5,534
Olympia, Washington
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Del Offline
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Olympia, Washington
Quote
Originally posted by b3groover:
I don't think Soy-Gel removes stain, but I believe it does remove lacquer.

I have an upright coming in that is painted yellow. If it works on that, I'll be a happy man! smile
No stripper that I know of removes stain. They can get you down to the wood but if the stain is in the wood you can only lighten it by sanding or bleaching.

We've used SOY-Gel to strip a couple of pianos that were painted with both oil based and latex paints of various sorts. It worked well enough.

ddf


Delwin D Fandrich
Piano Research, Design & Manufacturing Consultant
ddfandrich@gmail.com
(To contact me privately please use this e-mail address.)

Stupidity is a rare condition, ignorance is a common choice. --Anon
Re: Soy-based strippers? #621642
12/20/08 01:12 AM
12/20/08 01:12 AM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,135
SW Missouri
S
Sam Casey Offline
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Joined: Feb 2005
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SW Missouri
I used Benco products, B4 semi-paste and B7 liquid in a tank and brass impeller pump. It is methol cloride nasty and will burn a hole in your exposed hide. It also eats any finish. It's water wash and will remove stain. Some kind of bleach is in the remover which is activated with the water rinse. Every removable part possible goes in the tank. I do the rims with semi-paste. The tank is very fast.

I like the soy idea but the price is steep.

Re: Soy-based strippers? #621643
12/20/08 10:17 AM
12/20/08 10:17 AM
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 4,263
Vancouver B. C. Canada
Silverwood Pianos Offline
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Joined: Mar 2008
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Vancouver B. C. Canada
“ They can get you down to the wood but if the stain is in the wood you can only lighten it by sanding or bleaching.”

I don’t know of anyone who sands hardwood veneer to remove colour anymore. Not even in the furniture repair business. Bleaching is only done for extreme colour changes, and this also removes any patina that has been created. For the majority of the time, folks want the same colour so you are adding more colour rather than removing any at all.

For removing old stain:

You can take warm water and coarse steel wool. Soak the wool in water and wet the board. Then rub hard with the grain. This will open up the grain and allow the old water stain (which most older pianos are) to escape when you rinse off with the hose. So you are setting up the next step of filling the dents and cracks in the veneer.

What I do is what Sam does. I use the methyl strip, when rinsing off with the hose I attack it with the steel wool, then rinse off again and stand in the sun to dry.

This opens up the grain completely, and after the repairs you can add your colour, wiping stain, or spraying stain and then the first coats of finish. I never sand more than 150 so that the first coats will grab the wood real well for a good base. Use an airless system. They spray straight material instead of a mix of materials and air. Two coats and it is a skating rink. Then with the shading gun, two tint coats to even the colour and three top coats of clear and you are DONE BABY!!

www.silverwoodpianos.com


Dan Silverwood
www.silverwoodpianos.com
http://silverwoodpianos.blogspot.com/
http://www.facebook.com/SilverwoodPianosDotCom
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur."
Re: Soy-based strippers? #621644
12/20/08 12:47 PM
12/20/08 12:47 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,135
SW Missouri
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Sam Casey Offline
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Joined: Feb 2005
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SW Missouri
I use coarse wool too but also the heavy green scrubbies. Seems a little kinder to the wood. Grizzly Industrial has some that are 0000 grit. Amazes me that all that water does not loosen veneer but it dosen't. I strip outdoors, preferably on a windless day, use a garden hose and let my parts dry in the sunlight.

I have a air circular oscillating 6 inch, 5 hole hook and loop sander and boxes of grit from 1200 to 100. It has a 1 1/4 vent and I connect a hose to a small shop vac on the wall. Sucks up the dust while sanding. I use it on sealer coats, and NO it does not leave swirls. I also spray stain and toner. Use Mohawk.

Dan you messed with water base yet? I've been using Target Coatings. Drys very hard, uses light coats. They have a water based spray on wood filler that you squeege off the excess. Polyurethane. Hard as rock and hard to sand. Jury is still out on that one.

Re: Soy-based strippers? #621645
12/20/08 04:05 PM
12/20/08 04:05 PM
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 4,263
Vancouver B. C. Canada
Silverwood Pianos Offline
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Joined: Mar 2008
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Vancouver B. C. Canada
Oh I haven’t tried the green scrubbies yet but I will make a note of that. I believe if you left the board damp overnight Sam the veneer would lift for sure. Because there is only a soaking on the surface and then the power of the sun to dry, the water does not penetrate to the deeper layers….. Well that’s my theory ……….

I never sand anymore, it damages the patina too much, mostly I just fill and keep adding instead of subtraction, but again what I do mostly is period pieces from long ago…. Even divots and holes can be filled by lacquer up to 6 mm before you have the risk of shrinkage and cracking, just use a match head to drip it in right before you spray the next coat,and it will all melt in together……

No Sam I haven’t tried the water base lacquer yet, still with the solvent base. I just found out from my Mohawk guy that there is a new lacquer called Piano Lacquer. It is not the Instrument lacquer they sell for woodwinds and brass, but this one is supposed to have coats that build better…just came home with the complimentary pail to try it out on the grand I just sold…… will let you know…..

Usually I don’t use the sealer Sam. Mohawk sells a product called Nulac Pro-cote self seal 35% sheen. A 5 gallon pail will yield almost 7 gallons thinned out. This product has a LOT of solids so you have to make sure it is mixed well. No need for sealer with this one, waste of money actually. If you want to build coats why not just use lacquer to begin with?

I cut the first coats 30% and shoot them on with the airless. First coat is almost sanded right off with 150, then the second application is done with airless and just sand the pips with 220 to set-up the tint/shade coats. Top coats and you are on the home stretch…….

Also if you want you can purchase a lacquer heater. The stuff comes out at 131 degrees, couple of coats and you have the skating rink you are looking for. When I bought my lacquer heater in the mid nineties it was 5K I think.

www.silverwoodpianos.com


Dan Silverwood
www.silverwoodpianos.com
http://silverwoodpianos.blogspot.com/
http://www.facebook.com/SilverwoodPianosDotCom
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur."
Re: Soy-based strippers? #621646
12/21/08 04:21 PM
12/21/08 04:21 PM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,901
Massachusetts
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Roy123 Offline
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Joined: Sep 2004
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Massachusetts
You all do know that methylene chloride is a carcinogen.
http://www.cpsc.gov/cpscpub/pubs/5059.html

Re: Soy-based strippers? #621647
12/21/08 06:05 PM
12/21/08 06:05 PM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,232
Olympia, WA
rysowers Offline
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Olympia, WA
I have an associate who uses a fresh-air respirator. Seems like a great idea - he doesn't smell the stripper at all.

http://www.turbineproducts.com/fresh-air-respirators.html


Ryan Sowers,
Pianova Piano Service
Olympia, WA
www.pianova.net
Re: Soy-based strippers? #621648
12/21/08 08:09 PM
12/21/08 08:09 PM
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,493
CT
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CTPianotech Offline
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CT
Quote
Originally posted by Roy123:
You all do know that methylene chloride is a carcinogen.
http://www.cpsc.gov/cpscpub/pubs/5059.html
Yes. That is why I take numerous precautions when I'm stripping. (and why I remain open to alternatives--provided they work as well)

I typically wear some latex gloves, underneath a pair of sol-vex nitrile gloves, which are underneath a pair of Silver Shield gloves. http://tricon-env.com/silver_shield_gloves.htm The yellow poly-coat Tyvec w/hood and boot protects against the occasional splash. Safety glasses, a respirator, and working in a professional spray-booth with excellent ventilation help me stay safe.

While I like the positive air respirators for spraying, I haven't been comfortable using them for stripping. (what if I spilled some on the airline... eek )

These days we stick to stripper, then wipe dry with another solvent such as lac thinner. This is to contain any environmental waste. Allowing that stuff to run down your driveway--seeping into the ground on your property can become expensive years later.. If need be, we can wash TSP and or oxalic acid, to remove prior stain---after the stripping solvents have dried.


Rich Lindahl
Piano Restorations in Central CT
www.rivervalleypiano.com
Re: Soy-based strippers? #621649
12/22/08 02:00 AM
12/22/08 02:00 AM
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 3,751
Vancouver B.C. Canada
Rod Verhnjak Offline
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Rod Verhnjak  Offline
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Vancouver B.C. Canada
Quote
Originally posted by Silverwood Pianos:

I just found out from my Mohawk guy that there is a new lacquer called Piano Lacquer. It is not the Instrument lacquer they sell for woodwinds and brass, but this one is supposed to have coats that build better…just came home with the complimentary pail to try it out on the grand I just sold…… will let you know…..
[/URL]
We were the test shop for the new lacquer. It was formulated due to our constant complaining of the changes Mohawk made a year back when they discontinued the stuff we were using.

We used the "new" lacquer on 8 jobs and we are happy. The lacquer flows nicely and does not crack. The first replacement stuff Mohawk supplied to us cracked on 4 pianos before they were finished and only 4 coats. It was a nightmare.

The local supplier we have used for 30 years was of no help. We worked with the factory to find a solution. This new lacquer is the result.

We are told by the formulator to use ONE coat of vinyl sealer. We also paste fill all our finishes. We do sand the wood to get some of the old color out and prep all imperfections.

We wash our wood with warm water and Borax before any sanding. No hose used.


Verhnjak Pianos
Specializing in the Restoration, Refinishing & Maintenance
of Fine Heirloom Pianos

www.pianoman.ca
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