Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2.5 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
What's Hot!!
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
Forums RULES & HELP
-------------------
ADVERTISE on Piano World
(ad)
Piano Tuning
How to Tune Pianos
(125ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad)
Piano Buyer Guide
Piano Buyer Spring 2017
(ad)
4th Finger Enigma Resolved!
Schumann's 4th Finger Enigma Resolved!
Who's Online Now
53 registered members (AZ_Astro, bennevis, CharlesXX, bluebillytwo, Alex Hutor, 15 invisible), 1,794 guests, and 2 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Quick Links to Useful Piano & Music Resources
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers

Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano & Music Accessories
*Live Piano Venues
*Music School Listings
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Directory/Site Map
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords & Scales
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 5 of 5 1 2 3 4 5
#621137 - 04/30/08 09:35 PM Re: Different Kinds of Tunngs Can Affect Tonal Brightness?  
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 476
Jeff A. Smith, RPT Offline
Full Member
Jeff A. Smith, RPT  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 476
Angola, Indiana USA
Quote
Originally posted by Bill Bremmer RPT:
Shortly after that, I began to explore non-equal temperaments. I found a way to really combine having the desirable contracted harmony where it should be and let the tight sounding RBIs fall where they should be among the pure 5ths. To me, that kind of compromise results in a far more pleasing piano all around as opposed to applying one rigid rule across the board.

I encourage you to explore, nevertheless, Lucas Mason's book and whatever Isaac comes up with that I can translate from the French but please do keep in mind what I said. I've been there, done that and found something better. That was over 20 years ago now and I personally would never choose to tune a piano the way that Lucas Mason nor Bernhard Stopper suggest.
Thanks for your candid thoughts, Bill.

I've only tried to aurally tune an unequal temperament once. It was one of your EBVT sequences. I liked the way the center sounded pretty well, but I seemed to lose control of the treble octaves. Part of the problem -- as I saw it -- was I didn't have any checks accurate enough to take the place of what I do when tuning the treble in ET -- monitor evenly progressing beat rates of chromatically-ascending RBI's. I know it's just as important in treble tuning to see how the note being tuned lines up with SBI's below it like octaves, double and triple octaves, fifths, twelfths and nineteenths. But I guess for me the chromatically-ascending RBI tests are something I rely on pretty heavily to maintain consistency. I don't currently see how they can be applied to unequal temperaments, or how something similar can take their place.

I'm interested in learning how to aurally tune unequal temperaments, but unless I get a handle on this problem I'm not inclined to spend much time with it. Using an ETD would solve this problem, I'm sure.

Any thoughts? (I know this is way off-topic, but by now we all are anyway.)

Jeff


Jeff A. Smith
Registered Piano Technician
Indiana, USA
(ad 800)
PTG Journal
PTG Journal
#621138 - 05/06/08 11:18 PM Re: Different Kinds of Tunngs Can Affect Tonal Brightness?  
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,758
Gadzar Offline
2000 Post Club Member
Gadzar  Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,758
Mexico City
Maybe the book of Owen Jorgensen?


Rafael Melo
Piano Technician
rafaelmelo@afinacionpianos.com.mx

Serving Mexico City and suburbs.

http://www.afinacionpianos.com.mx
#621139 - 05/07/08 08:10 AM Re: Different Kinds of Tunngs Can Affect Tonal Brightness?  
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 839
UprightTooner Offline
500 Post Club Member
UprightTooner  Offline
500 Post Club Member

Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 839
North-East US
Jeff:

I was hoping Bill would respond to your post.

Although I’ve never intentionally tuned other than ET ( :rolleyes: ) , I’ve thought along the same lines as you are. How do you check your treble octaves with RBI progressions when tuning UT? The only answers I can think of are either: don’t, instead rely solely on octave checks; or be so intimate with the non-ET temperament that you know what the RBI progression should sound like.


Part-time tuner
#621140 - 05/08/08 05:02 AM Re: Different Kinds of Tunngs Can Affect Tonal Brightness?  
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 6
Blackheath Offline
Junior Member
Blackheath  Offline
Junior Member

Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 6
London UK
back to the original question. Do this simple experiment, it only takes a minute. Take just one note on a piano that has not been recently tuned and tune it at the pitch you find it! that's all,.. just reset the tuning pins. Now listen to how it compares with its neighboring notes. If you are not convinced, take a weaker or duller note in the middle register (there's always one) and reset the pins on that one and lend an ear to how it compares. Then, and only then, go have a cup of tea.


professional tuner-tech
(ad)
Piano & Music Accessories
piano accessories music gifts tuning and moving equipment
#621141 - 05/08/08 03:02 PM Re: Different Kinds of Tunngs Can Affect Tonal Brightness?  
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 9,230
Olek Offline
9000 Post Club Member
Olek  Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 9,230
France
Quote
Originally posted by Blackheath:
back to the original question. Do this simple experiment, it only takes a minute. Take just one note on a piano that has not been recently tuned and tune it at the pitch you find it! that's all,.. just reset the tuning pins. Now listen to how it compares with its neighboring notes. If you are not convinced, take a weaker or duller note in the middle register (there's always one) and reset the pins on that one and lend an ear to how it compares. Then, and only then, go have a cup of tea.
Even simpler, move a little a string, with a pencil, pushing on it near the agrafe or capo d'astro (the string does not really move, but is disturbed).

Listen if the tone differs

Same brushing the strings with a brass rod (always near the termination)

Anything done will change the tone.


Professional of the profession.
Foo Foo specialist
I wish to add some kind and sensitive phrase but nothing comes to mind.!
#621142 - 05/09/08 03:34 AM Re: Different Kinds of Tunngs Can Affect Tonal Brightness?  
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 6
Blackheath Offline
Junior Member
Blackheath  Offline
Junior Member

Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 6
London UK
Yes, my point exactly, Kamin. I was respecting the original questioner and confining my thoughts to the effects on tone of tuning only in the generally accepted sense of the term.
These changes in tone are often dramatic and only last a few days, even moving only one string has its effect, as will playing one note quite loudly on a piano that has not been played heavily recently.
The change is towards more power, depth of tone and brilliance of attack. I have, so far, not been able to reduce any of these by simply tuning. Any suggestions? other than perhaps another cup of tea.


professional tuner-tech
#621143 - 05/09/08 04:51 AM Re: Different Kinds of Tunngs Can Affect Tonal Brightness?  
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 9,230
Olek Offline
9000 Post Club Member
Olek  Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 9,230
France
Blackhealth ,

That may be part of the explanation why some pianists notice when somebody played their piano


yes the cup of tea seem the good answer !

To be taken with moderation ! That recall me in Normandy 20 years ago if in a pub you wanted a coffee without the little glass of apple alcohol, ("calva") you had to tell so, so you ordered : "a coffe "without". (opposed to the "normal coffee)

But it was raining all day long, no climatic changes yet , I where young and cute !


Professional of the profession.
Foo Foo specialist
I wish to add some kind and sensitive phrase but nothing comes to mind.!
Page 5 of 5 1 2 3 4 5

Moderated by  Piano World 

Piano Acc. & Gift Items in
Piano World's Online Store
In PianoSupplies.com ,(a division of Piano World)
our online store for piano and music gifts and accessories, Digital Piano Dolly, party goods, tuning equipment, piano moving equipment, benches, lamps Caster Cups and more.


Free Shipping* on Jansen Artist Piano Benches, Cocoweb Piano Lamps, Hidrau Hydraulic Piano Benches
(*free shipping within contiguous U.S. only)
(ad)
Pearl River & Ritmuller
Ritmuller Pianos
(ad)
Pianoteq
PianoTeq 6 Out now
(ad)
Lindeblad Piano
Lindeblad Piano Restorations and sales
ad
Pierce Piano Atlas


New Topics - Multiple Forums
The difference between PTG and technician association?
by Fazioli-Yang. 10/22/17 12:27 AM
Sostenuto pedal
by Elysia.S. 10/21/17 10:52 PM
Impending issue with ABF Recital software
by Whizbang. 10/21/17 10:12 PM
Lee's Piano
by Piano*Dad. 10/21/17 09:18 PM
Cliché Pieces
by Qazsedcft. 10/21/17 06:06 PM
Forum Statistics
Forums44
Topics182,418
Posts2,666,365
Members89,015
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
(ad)
Accu-Tuner
Sanderson Accu-Tuner
Check It Out!
There's a lot more to Piano World than just the forums.
Click Here to
Explore The Rest of Piano World!!
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers


 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter |


copyright 1997 - 2017 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.0