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Junmer,

Those figures are great! I've seen C8 range from +20 to +50 or so, and A0 from -5 to -12. Your numbers line up very well, just as they are.

If you tune the smaller piano with the curve of the larger one, it's exactly like having an error in the inharmonicity measurements. Generally, bigger pianos will have bigger offsets at top and bottom, and smaller pianos will have less, because of bigger inharmonicity.

It's a good experiment: tune across the wound/plain break on a small piano, using the sample Steinway D .tun file. Just do A4, A3, and A2. Compare the beating of the single octaves to the A2/A4 double octave. A2/A4 should be way too fast for comfort.

Thanks for the kind words. I'm just passing along advice I've gotten from bugging Robert over the years. TuneLab really allowed me to get started in this career. I still use it for pitch raises, for noisy environments ("Do you mind if we set up all the metal folding chairs, now?"), and to measure starting pitch of each piano.

--Cy--

Thanks for the reply Cy. I was nervously waiting for it as the time to tune those 2 pianos comes within hours from now.

What will I do then to avoid the error in iH if I use the tuning curve of the RX7 to tune the RX3?

JUNMER

I'm assuming that the numbers you posted came from measuring iH and tweaking the tuning curve for each piano, as though you were tuning them normally.

Since A0 and C8 came out so close, just go ahead and use the RX7 tuning curve for the RX7, and the RX3 for the RX3.

Another advantage of this approach is that you won't be making a big adjustment on either piano, so you're improving stability.

You'll be fine!

--Cy--

P.S. There's a TuneLab Users Group:

http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/TuneLab_Users/

--Cy--

Yipee! I made the right decision doing this even before I read your last post. It might have worked pretty well.

I was given only two and a half hours to tune both pianos, including the moving of the pianos from the backstage to the stage. It was quiet when I started but after half an hour, about twenty people barged into the stage to build a structure for a 30-piece orchestra. All the banging, buzzing, clanging and crashing noises they created made it almost impossible for any tuner to do a tuning job, but thanks to Tunelab for being sensitive enough to hear the pianos with precision.

In my mind, since it was sort of an experiment, I thought I could give them two good reasons why my tunings would turn out bad, in case. (1.) The pianos were just moved into a new room without allowing time for the strings to settle to the new room temperature. (2.) It was too noisy.

After two hours, the noises gradually died down as the structure had been built and everyone made their way to the exit giving me a sigh of relief. Almost simultaneously, the 30-member orchestra silently made their way in with their respective instruments because it was time for rehearsal. First, the violinist bowed a tiny sound apparently as a sound check. From ppp to pp to p to mp to mf to f to ff to fff and finally ffffff! Everyone had a grand time plucking, bowing, banging, blowing, smashing, some doing scale passages that turned the hall into a virtual market place, worse than the disturbance the previous noisemakers made.

The conductor approached me and asked how long it would take for me to finish. I said 15 minutes if everyone stopped making noise. At the strike of his baton there was total silence. All eyes were on me and my ears were ringing. Nevertheless, as promised I finished in 15 minutes and after my final checks, I was satisfied with the outcome. The octaves were clean, intervals balanced and chords harmonized. THANKS TO TUNELAB!

The conductor hit the A4 on the piano and everyone tuned their instruments from it before starting off with their first piece. I had goosebumps to hear all their instruments were way out of tune and they didn't seem to care. They shouldn't have called me to do my work in the first place.

Oh well, was I very worried!

JUNMER

When tune two different pianos most safely is to get verified stretch card (for example:
CONN ST6, PETERSON.
Peterson small grand stretch chart which is, by construction, suitable for the most of pianos).
STANDARD PIANO TUNING TABLE

CONN ST6

1 A -20
2 A# -19
3 B -18
4 C -17
5 C# -16
6 D -15
7 D# -14
8 E -13
9 F -12
10 F# -11
11 G -10
12 G# - 9
--------------------------
13 A - 8
14 A# - 7
15 B - 6
16 C - 6
17 C# - 5
18 D - 5
19 D# - 4
20 E - 4
21 F - 4
22 F# - 4
23 G - 4
24 G# - 3
25 A - 3
26 A# - 3
27 B - 3
28 C - 3
29 C# - 3
30 D - 3

---------------------------
31 D# - 3
32 E - 3
33 F - 3
34 F# - 2.5
35 G - 2.5
36 G# - 2
37 A - 2
38 A# - 2
39 B - 2
40 C - 2
41 C# - 2
42 D - 2
43 D# - 1.5
44 E - 1
45 F - 1
46 F# - 1
47 G - 1
48 G# - 1
----------------------------
49 A 0
50 A# 0
51 B 0
52 C 0
53 C# 0
54 D 0
55 D# 1
56 E 1
57 F 1
58 F# 1
59 G 1
60 G# 2
----------------------------

61 A 2
62 A# 2
63 B 2
64 C 2
65 C# 3
66 D 3
67 D# 3
68 E 4
69 F 4
70 F# 5
71 G 5
72 G# 6
----------------------------
73 A 6
74 A# 7
75 B 8
76 C 9
77 C# 10
78 D 11
79 D# 12
80 E 13
81 F 15
82 F# 17
83 G 19
84 G# 21
----------------------------
85 A 23
86 A# 25
87 B 27
88 C 30

Peterson small grand stretch chart which is, by construction, suitable for the most of pianos.


PETERSON SMALL GRAND STRETCH CHART
A0 -20
A#0-18.7
B0 -17.5
C1 -16.3
C#1-15.2
D1 -14.1
D#1-13.1
E1 -12.1
F1 -11.2
F#1-10.3
G1 -9.5
G#1-8.7
A1 -8.0
A#1-7.3
B1 -6.6
C2 -6.0
C#2-5.4
D2 -4.8
D#2-4.3
E2 -3.8
F2 -3.3
F#2-2.9
G2 -2.5
G#2-2.1
A2 -1.8
A#2-1.5
B2 -1.2
C3 -1.0
C#3-0.8
D3 -0.6
D#3-0.4
E3 -0.2
F3 -0.1
F#3----D#5 0.00
E5 0.1
F5 0.2
F#5 0.4
G5 0.6
G#5 0.8
A5 1.1
A#5 1.5
B#5 2.0
C6 2.5
C#6 3.0
D6 3.6
D#6 4.2
E6 4.9
F6 5.6
F#6 6.4
G6 7.2
G#6 8.1
A6 9.0
A#6 10.0
B6 11.0
C7 12.1
C#7 13.2
D7 14.4
D#7 15.6
E7 16.9
F7 18.2
F#7 19.6
G7 21.0
G#7 22.5
A7 24.0
A#7 25.6
B7 27.2
C8 29.0

MIHA

I was supposed to tune for a 7:00 pm show Thursday, and my time was 6:00 pm! Needless to say, I got there early, in time to hear some awful sounds coming out of the piano. When I checked it, it had been tuned to 442, and we use 440. I did my best, but I was still out there at 6:50, with much of the audience seated. I knew it was not great, but the horrible clashes were gone, for the most part. It was a sold-out house, but a small venue, thank goodness!

Yesterday, same piano, different venue, a little more time, although it was the second show I tuned for that day! There were a lot of electronics around the piano, which made access difficult. Some of that time went when a treble string broke, but at least I had enough time to do a good job, and it sounded good. I touched up between sets, listened to a bit of the second, and decided to go home. I was tired, and I did not like them as well as the first performer. (If I had my druthers, I would have gone to the show I tuned for first.) Besides, everybody was eating while I was working, and when I finished, the food was gone.

Tomorrow, same piano, yet a third venue! Matinee and evening performances. Familiar musicians. I hope everything will be settling in nicely by then.

Junmer,

I'm glad you had good results! Those kinds of environments are perfect for TuneLab.

Miha, those stretch charts are just like buying ready-to-wear clothing, instead of having the pants tailored for you. They might fit some pianos OK, but certainly aren't the best fit. With so many ETDs today that can measure each individual piano to create a tailored tuning curve, there's no longer a reason to use machines like the Conn Strobe-O-Tuner, that don't have a microphone. (That's the reason the stretch charts had to be created in the first place!). You have a computer; download the free TuneLab and try it (www.tunelab-world.com). You only need the simplest of microphones, such as office supply stores have for a few dollars. Get one without a battery.

BDB, eight cents is a big change on a performance piano, isn't it! Not fun to tune with hundreds of eyes on you...

--Cy--

Thanks again, Cy, for your support. I hope I can still count on you for my future doubts.

Miha, we appreciate your effort in inputting those figures on this post. I used to use an Autostrobe piano tuner before I got to know about Tunelab. Now I won't even think of using it as a back-up if my Pocket PC ever malfunctions. Try Tunelab, you'll be happier.

JUNMER