Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Piano Forum purchasing piano next week: fazioli vs bosendorfer?

I wonder,on this board, for those who can't afford either, Fazioli seems to get the majority vote. For those who can afford it and bought one,on this board, Bosie owners certainly out number Fazioli owners by quite a big margin.
I wish I get to have a dilemma like this one of these days

The reason could be that Bösendorfer is better for home use.

Bösendofer tone: warm and sweet.

Fazioli tone: cool and laser sharp.

Quite the opposite.

I would choose the one I liked better. But I have neither. Personally, I would rather have an inexpensive piano and an extensive music collection. So I do!

I haven't played a recent-model Bösendorfer of the size under discussion. But for home use I would not want to switch from my F212 to an F228. In a concert hall it would be another matter.

About 18 months ago, I was quoted much higher list prices for Bösendorfer than Fazioli. Almost 50% higher.

Best wishes,
Matthew

In Germany, the list prices for the Bösendorfer 225 and the Fazioli 228 are roughly the same (give and take 1000 €) - both around 83 000 €.

Buy the instrument YOU like best, the one YOU think suits the music YOU play -- don't think I would want to listen to other people's advice at that stage anymore.
Or: wait until Steingräber bring out the 232 cm instrument (in about a year, I think) ...

Just my 2 cents.

Markus

Matthew:
But for home use I would not want to switch from my F212 to an F228. In a concert hall it would be another matter.

I quite often get to play (and hear others performing, both jazz and classical) on a fairly new F212 that is in a smallish (~150 seater) recital room at the Conservatoire Populaire de Genève. It is an extremely fine instrument for both solo performing and accompanying. When playing for my son's exams or recitals, it is more than capable of the very fine dynamic distinctions and clarity needed to accompany a double-bass, (most recently Fauré's Sicilienne, for example.)

For home use (where I have a very live environment, stone-tiled floors, rough-plastered walls, bamboo venetian blinds on windows and very few soft furnishings) I went with the perhaps softer-toned 214CS, but I don't think that Fazioli and Bösendorfers are mutually exclusive in touch and tone preference terms, if you see what I mean.

-Michael B.

Ciao to everyone from Milan, Italy. I'm a fan of Bosendorfer crispy, vibrant basses and mellow middle tones but if you are looking for a complete gorgeous grand piano don't esitate: Fazioli is absolutely astonishing.

Sam

Postenebraslux:

You wrote:

PS. Numerian, a change from a B225 to F228 is hardly an 'upgrade,' merely a change to another very fine piano that is perhaps more suited to your personal style and taste. Once at this level of piano-building, they are no distinguishable quality or level differences, merely ones of different design approaches, and of course, the standard of preparation and maintenance is a major factor as well.

Some of the older Bosies had sluggish actions and could readily be upgraded to a Steinway, Fazioli, etc. I gather this has been corrected by Bosendorfer so that they now compete with all top tier pianos, though my bias is that the Faziolis on average have more responsive actions than other pianos.

The different design approaches do affect tonal quality. There is something about the Bosendorfer bass that is just gripping and which I miss. But the Fazioli bass has tremendous clarity in the most complex chords, and this is true across the keyboard.

In my experience, the Fazioli is a louder piano therby requiring the pianist to use more control for soft passages. Though it's not exactly a flaw. The Bosie is quite easy to control and will give you a strong clear ff with a litte effort. This really is a coin toss.

Good luck!

Which is exactly what I did.

I have played a Fazioli one time in my life. It sounded great, played well, but as I recall, it didn't have the same charisma as other fine pianos. It could have been the location, prep, tuning, voicing and all the piano specific factors that were unique for this one instrument. For lack of better words, it sounded "antiseptic" to me - clean, clinical, very precise, but lacked a warmth. The audio fanatics reading this might appreciate these terms when one describes the sound of a solid state amplifier vs. tubes.

Over the years I have visited numerous piano dealers and experimented with various pianos in many different locations. I've heard disappointing Steinways and magnificent Yamahas.

It's very hard to make a conclusion based on one brief experience or trial with a piano. If you are really in the position to fully appreciate the subtle nuances between two great pianos, then the decision is to be honest with yourself and choose the one that calls to you.

Good luck

I own a Bosendorfer, but played Fazioli and quickly dismissed it. IMO, they are completely different pianos. The Fazioli is a loud, almost brash, sounding instrument. There's nothing delicate about the sound. The Bosendorfer is the exact opposite.

Action wise I'd say the two are very similar, but the Bosendorfer has a very definite edge in my opinion. It provides much more feedback and is easier to control. But I also think this has to do with playing style. I like pianos that require effort to get them to play fff. Others like pianos that are normally loud and require a deliberate act of playing lightly to get ppp out of the piano.

Although I wouldn't take resale value into consideration - if you have enough to afford either one, then presumably large depreciation isn't going to kill you - still, Bosendorfer has a name larger than life when compared to Fazioli (except in VERY small circles). Of course Steinway/Yamaha have names larger than life compared to Bosendorfer.

Obviously my vote is for Bosendorfer by a mile. The only piano that came close in my search was a Hamburgh Steinway.

That said, buy the one you like. You can't go wrong with either one.

Derick

Hi Numerian,

The different design approaches do affect tonal quality.

If you mean, quality in the sense of "characteristics" rather than "superior" I would agree . As I said before, talking about these kind of pianos is not really a question of which is 'better,' rather what one's personal preferences are; once at this level of instrument to say that one brand has a 'better quality' tone in any particular range is not really applicable. Different yes, but very rarely better or worse...

Regarding actions, one person's playing style may make a Bösendorfer action appear to perform less well, and the Fazioli suits him/her better; another pianist may well find the opposite. And this is with both at factory specs, before getting into any slight changes in aftertouch, etc.

I am not aware of any recent corrections made by Bösendorfer to their actions or design so as to make them less 'sluggish.' I played a B225 from the early 1980's in German-speaking Switzerland a few weeks ago, and the action was comparable to a new one, or indeed any well-maintained Fazioli, Hamburg Steinway, etc., in terms of rapidity of response, controllability and consistency.

-Michael B.

I heard this comment about the 1980 instruments in the showroom in Vienna. I thought I saw a similar comment in print once but can't remember where. You are right that action characteristics are another one of those subjective elements of a piano. My teacher loved the Bosendorfer action, which I did not find very responsive. He thinks the Fazioli "plays itself" and I'm not sure if that is a compliment.

Ditto Dram's post - been searching for my own grand piano replacement - have not been impressed with Bosendorfer despite their reputation. Fazioli, on the other hand is excellent (have only played two).

But best advice is ignore everything you read on this forum (except this post, of course) and buy whichever one your heart (and fingers and ears) is telling you to buy.

Both pianos are suited well to the types of music you favor in your profile ( modern, impressionistic, jazz ).
With that being said, both pianos are at such different ends of the spectrum in terms of tone and tonal responsiveness, I think you can make a mistake here if you are not really thorough.
If you play at a high level, spend a lot of time on each piano over the course of a couple days. It should become more and more clear which you prefer. If you don't play at a high level, and you are concerned about making a mistake here, hire someone who plays repertoire you are interested in at a high level, to help you choose.

Buy both. Play them both for a year, then ship the least favorite to me!

One more vote for the Fazioli.

Ahh... I'm so glad to see so many votes for Fazioli, it seems many of you agree with me.

Seriously, gpiu, you can't go wrong with the bigger double caster wheels and the 18k gold-plated brass pieces that maintain the bright color longer -- you can literally hear the bright color!

gpiu,

I see that in your profile you count yourself as a Fazioli owner. Does this mean you've made a decision?

Or does it mean something else altogether?

In NYC Fazioli is insanely expensive while Bosie is just crazy expensive. I take it money is no object. I would just get a Model D, oh wait, thats what I did~!