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Re: The things you will do for a customer #615893
02/12/09 08:35 AM
02/12/09 08:35 AM
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 5,944
Bradford County, PA
UnrightTooner Offline
5000 Post Club Member
UnrightTooner  Offline
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 5,944
Bradford County, PA
OK, I’ll spell it out. Any service professional will encounter abusive customers. Since we are all humans we will react emotionally. Sometimes we will act abusive in return. At some point we should just “walk away” as many that have shared on this topic have done. If we don’t, we should examine what we did instead and come up with a plan so that next time we just “walk away.”

Jerry bragged about how he did not walk away. He bragged about how the customer is not always right. In this case, when all was said and done, there was no customer. It really bothers me that no one else sees what happened in the way I do. An appointment to tune a piano resulted in the piano being worse off than how it started, which Jerry took delight in! It seems that Jerry might have been able to learn something from the “flake” (a demeaning term he used) that tuned it before.

Jerry also made a post trying to bully me off this forum. This type of arrogance is displayed by a few of the regular posters here, and accepted by most. I try to warn hobbyists away from here so that they will not receive this sort of abuse.

If I leave this forum again it will be for the same reason that I did last time and for the same reason I lurked for so long before first posting. I do not not like being part of this kind of arrogance. But, I have to take the good with the bad to stay here. If it gets bad enough, I will leave because I choose to not be part of it, not because anyone else does not want want me here.


Jeff Deutschle
Part-Time Tuner
Who taught the first chicken how to peck?
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Re: The things you will do for a customer #615894
02/12/09 10:02 AM
02/12/09 10:02 AM
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 4,263
Vancouver B. C. Canada
Silverwood Pianos Offline
4000 Post Club Member
Silverwood Pianos  Offline
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 4,263
Vancouver B. C. Canada
Good one Bob,

I have had several variations of that scenario……. I especially like the one where you can hear them moving around in the house but they don’t answer the front door……

Sold a piano to a customer once that just wouldn’t stay in tune. I would tune the instrument and then 2-4 weeks later the customer would call and complain. I attended the residence and the piano was way out. After several attempts at correcting this situation I started to ask questions about the lifestyle here. It turned out that every day when leaving for work they would change the heat from 72 degrees down to 60….and then back up….daily……….

My final tuning was the day I learned this fact. I could not for the life of me get this fellow to understand that changes of this type made the instrument run out of tune. I guess in the end he did not want to understand……….

Dan Silverwood
www.silverwoodpianos.com


Dan Silverwood
www.silverwoodpianos.com
http://silverwoodpianos.blogspot.com/
http://www.facebook.com/SilverwoodPianosDotCom
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur."
Re: The things you will do for a customer #615895
02/12/09 10:23 AM
02/12/09 10:23 AM
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,555
B
Bob Newbie Offline
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Bob Newbie  Offline
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B

Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,555
What he saved on heat he gave back to you... to tune the piano...

Re: The things you will do for a customer #615896
02/12/09 10:29 AM
02/12/09 10:29 AM
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 2,627
Strong, Maine
David Jenson Online content
2000 Post Club Member
David Jenson  Online Content
2000 Post Club Member

Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 2,627
Strong, Maine
Somewhat in the same vein, I once had a customer who ran a Bed and Breakfast establishment who would not pay his bill. He disappeared after showing me the piano, and never paid despite repeated billings. Incredibly, a couple of years later I got a call to the same address. Thinking the establishment had changed hands, I went to the place, and there was the same dead-beat!

I'm sure he didn't recognize me, and again he showed me the piano and again disappeared. I waited a few minutes, then knocked on the door that he had gone through. 'No answer after several knocks. It wasn't a big place, so I knew he could hear me.

A nicer person would have simply left. I did leave, but not before detuning the piano a bit. A couple of weeks later another tuner in the area that I hardly knew called laughing and told me he had been called to repair my work. The B&B owner had stiffed him earlier, and he said, "I improved upon your work a bit. The thing sounded really horrible when I left!"

I noticed a year later that the B&B had closed.


David L. Jenson
Tuning - Repairs - Refurbishing
Jenson's Piano Service
-----
Re: The things you will do for a customer #615897
02/12/09 10:35 AM
02/12/09 10:35 AM
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 2,018
Murphys, Ca
K
Keith Roberts Offline
2000 Post Club Member
Keith Roberts  Offline
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K

Joined: May 2004
Posts: 2,018
Murphys, Ca
I don't think anybody tried to bully you off the forum. We may have tried to find out if you were for real or just one of the snipers. Email does not convey the appropriate body language and tone of voice so to take something like that as a personal attack isn't right. Unright obviously violated his own principles by sniping that comment at Jerry. After saying all that flowerey stuff about having the choice and how he is better than Jerry because he walks away, he certainly isn't following those princples now. The abuse delivered to Jerry in the previous post is in no way any less than the abuse Jerry gave back to the client and was far less appropriate. I think Jerry did the right thing in reacting as a human being in the face of an unreasonable person. Chances are she was an alcoholic (It takes one to know one)and sometimes there is no good way to deal with one.

So Unright, it seems there was only one reason for your post and that reason contradicts everything you said in the explanation...
I don't get it. Why did you post that in the first place?


Keith Roberts
Keith's Piano Service
Hathaway Pines,Ca
Re: The things you will do for a customer #615898
02/12/09 10:43 AM
02/12/09 10:43 AM
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 5,944
Bradford County, PA
UnrightTooner Offline
5000 Post Club Member
UnrightTooner  Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 5,944
Bradford County, PA
Ah, yes. When you point out abuse to an abuser, they usually claim that pointing out is abuse in itself. But then wouldn’t the claim also be abuse?


Jeff Deutschle
Part-Time Tuner
Who taught the first chicken how to peck?
Re: The things you will do for a customer #615899
02/12/09 10:44 AM
02/12/09 10:44 AM
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 4,263
Vancouver B. C. Canada
Silverwood Pianos Offline
4000 Post Club Member
Silverwood Pianos  Offline
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 4,263
Vancouver B. C. Canada
Bob Newbie,

You are correct.Good point!

But I did give up on that one.Working with customers should not turn into a war, maybe someone else would state it differently to him but I am not so sure......

Dan Silverwood
www.silverwoodpianos.com


Dan Silverwood
www.silverwoodpianos.com
http://silverwoodpianos.blogspot.com/
http://www.facebook.com/SilverwoodPianosDotCom
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur."
Re: The things you will do for a customer #615900
02/12/09 10:59 AM
02/12/09 10:59 AM
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 2,018
Murphys, Ca
K
Keith Roberts Offline
2000 Post Club Member
Keith Roberts  Offline
2000 Post Club Member
K

Joined: May 2004
Posts: 2,018
Murphys, Ca
Pointing out abuse is one thing. Sniping a comment like that is an abusive way of doing it. It was no different than Jerry's way of dealing with the customer. It had no tact and was just another shot in the war.


Keith Roberts
Keith's Piano Service
Hathaway Pines,Ca
Re: The things you will do for a customer #615901
02/12/09 11:19 AM
02/12/09 11:19 AM
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 5,944
Bradford County, PA
UnrightTooner Offline
5000 Post Club Member
UnrightTooner  Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 5,944
Bradford County, PA
Keith:

Thanks for keeping this going. I thought you would. I am going to assume that the snipe you are referring to is “Thanks for explaining again what you are really like.” If there was nothing shameful, only honorable, in Jerry’s actions it would not have been considered a snipe. I see it as a good thing that Jerry took offense, which was my intent, to show that he did not feel completely OK with his actions. What I did was chastisement, not abuse.


Jeff Deutschle
Part-Time Tuner
Who taught the first chicken how to peck?
Re: The things you will do for a customer #615902
02/12/09 11:31 AM
02/12/09 11:31 AM
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 5,944
Bradford County, PA
UnrightTooner Offline
5000 Post Club Member
UnrightTooner  Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 5,944
Bradford County, PA
Quote
Originally posted by Keith Roberts:
Pointing out abuse is one thing. Sniping a comment like that is an abusive way of doing it. It was no different than Jerry's way of dealing with the customer. It had no tact and was just another shot in the war.
Oops, I missed the forest for the trees! If you think that what I did was abusive and you think that it was ”no different than Jerry’s way of dealing with the customer” then you must also think that Jerry was abusive. Perhaps you misspoke. I hope not…


Jeff Deutschle
Part-Time Tuner
Who taught the first chicken how to peck?
Re: The things you will do for a customer #615903
02/12/09 12:24 PM
02/12/09 12:24 PM
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 4,263
Vancouver B. C. Canada
Silverwood Pianos Offline
4000 Post Club Member
Silverwood Pianos  Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 4,263
Vancouver B. C. Canada
This thread WAS about things you will do for a customer but unfortunately it has now been turned into SOMETHING ELSE which is about members.

Enough of this one for me……….. :rolleyes:

Dan Silverwood
www.silverwoodpianos.com


Dan Silverwood
www.silverwoodpianos.com
http://silverwoodpianos.blogspot.com/
http://www.facebook.com/SilverwoodPianosDotCom
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur."
Re: The things you will do for a customer #615904
02/12/09 12:38 PM
02/12/09 12:38 PM
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 5,944
Bradford County, PA
UnrightTooner Offline
5000 Post Club Member
UnrightTooner  Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 5,944
Bradford County, PA
Dan:

I have a similar complaint. This thread WAS about things you will do for a customer but unfortunately quickly also became about things you will do to a customer. I could not keep silent.


Jeff Deutschle
Part-Time Tuner
Who taught the first chicken how to peck?
Re: The things you will do for a customer #615905
02/12/09 01:18 PM
02/12/09 01:18 PM
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,722
PA
daniokeeper Offline
1000 Post Club Member
daniokeeper  Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,722
PA
I have a two-day old story of a terrific customer putting up with me...

I tune for a very nice young lady that schedules her appointments by email. Well, this last time, I had someone else reschedule, so I could schedule her only several days later. In my reply, I meant to type (in reference to the other customer) the words:

"... who rescheduled ..."

Unfortunately, it came out differently. My careless fat fingers working at 100 mph typed out:

"... whore scheduled ..."

Instead of typing:
"...w-h-o-spacebar-r-e-s-c-h-e-d-u-l-e-d",
I typed:
"...w-h-o-r-e-spacebar-s-c-h-e-d-u-l-e-d"

Needless to say, I was horrified when I reread my response attached in her return email. Of course I apologized for my error.

Sometimes customers put up with us, too smile

Hang in there!
-Joe


Joe Gumbosky
Piano Tuning & Repair
www.morethanpianos.com
(semi-retired)
Re: The things you will do for a customer #615906
02/12/09 01:24 PM
02/12/09 01:24 PM
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 42
Michigan
mitech Offline
Full Member
mitech  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 42
Michigan
Quote
Originally posted by Jerry Groot RPT:
Tooner,

I don't know who in the heck you think you are to "judge another" but, you have shown your true color's time and again in this piano forum for who YOU really are. A troll and a trouble maker. You left once. Time for you to leave again.. Get lost. We don't need or want trouble makers in here.

I put up with an awful lot of verbal abuse, swearing and screaming from this woman before I finally let loose. A full 15 minutes worth.

As a "part time tuner" yourself, you have had a fraction of the experience in this field that I have had in my 40 years of tuning, 35 of them, full time.

I rarely have problems with clients. There isn't a full time technician out there that HASN'T had problems at some point in time. Generally, these clients have some sort of mental issue going on but, that is no reason to take it out on another HONEST person that was called in to do their job.
And, I stand by my statement. I will not take verbal or mental abuse from a client. Nor, will I take it from some smart alack know it all like yourself.

If you don't like what I wrote. Well, TOUGH. Go troll some place else and stop starting trouble!
Bravo, Jerry! Well said...


Mark

PTG Associate Member
Re: The things you will do for a customer #615907
02/12/09 01:27 PM
02/12/09 01:27 PM
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 42
Michigan
mitech Offline
Full Member
mitech  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 42
Michigan
Quote
Originally posted by UnrightTooner:
OK, I’ll spell it out. Any service professional will encounter abusive customers. Since we are all humans we will react emotionally. Sometimes we will act abusive in return. At some point we should just “walk away” as many that have shared on this topic have done. If we don’t, we should examine what we did instead and come up with a plan so that next time we just “walk away.”

Jerry bragged about how he did not walk away. He bragged about how the customer is not always right. In this case, when all was said and done, there was no customer. It really bothers me that no one else sees what happened in the way I do. An appointment to tune a piano resulted in the piano being worse off than how it started, which Jerry took delight in! It seems that Jerry might have been able to learn something from the “flake” (a demeaning term he used) that tuned it before.

Jerry also made a post trying to bully me off this forum. This type of arrogance is displayed by a few of the regular posters here, and accepted by most. I try to warn hobbyists away from here so that they will not receive this sort of abuse.

If I leave this forum again it will be for the same reason that I did last time and for the same reason I lurked for so long before first posting. I do not not like being part of this kind of arrogance. But, I have to take the good with the bad to stay here. If it gets bad enough, I will leave because [b]I
choose to not be part of it, not because anyone else does not want want me here. [/b]
Dood! You must seriously lighten up!

Have you ever heard of " If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all" ?


Mark

PTG Associate Member
Re: The things you will do for a customer #615908
02/12/09 01:46 PM
02/12/09 01:46 PM
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 6,828
Grand Rapids Michigan
Jerry Groot RPT Offline
6000 Post Club Member
Jerry Groot RPT  Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 6,828
Grand Rapids Michigan
Thanks for your support people. I do appreciate it.

I don't understand the theory behind what Tooner is doing other than, in a few of his own postings in the past, he himself has said that he has "issues and that he shouldn't be posting." Whatever that means... Why he chooses to all of a sudden pick on me, I can't say. I haven't even talked with him since he returned again.

At any rate, we are here to help one another, to contribute valuable information not to fight.

I reported this thread to Ken Knapp because this is not the first time Tooner has done this to myself or to others in this tech forum.

Enough already Jeff.
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now, on the positive side of things?

I had a customer that we contacted last week, she has a nice Yamaha grand that hasn't been tuned in 3 or 4 years now because she is in dire need financially. So, what did I do for my customer that used to tune it yearly? Just for her, I dropped my price by $55 just to help her out. I'm not positive but, it sounded like she was about to cry!

She said, I have so badly wanted to get my piano tuned but, just could not afford it. THANK YOU! THANK YOU! THANK YOU! I said, well, you're welcome!

I don't do this very often but, hey, we help when we can help right?


Jerry Groot RPT
Piano Technicians Guild
Grand Rapids, Michigan
www.grootpiano.com

We love to play BF2.
Re: The things you will do for a customer #615909
02/12/09 03:19 PM
02/12/09 03:19 PM
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 3,200
Marietta, GA
Les Koltvedt Offline
3000 Post Club Member
Les Koltvedt  Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 3,200
Marietta, GA
thumb Jerry...


Les Koltvedt
Servicing the Greater Atlanta Area.
www.well-lovedpiano.com/atlanta-piano-technicians/
PTG Associate
Re: The things you will do for a customer #615910
02/12/09 03:40 PM
02/12/09 03:40 PM
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 119
Lansing, MI
B
b3groover Offline
Full Member
b3groover  Offline
Full Member
B

Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 119
Lansing, MI
Too bad this thread turned ugly. Too bad this forum software doesn't have an "ignore" function. Jeff's mantra seems to be "do as I say, not as I do." Turn the other cheek, eh?

Anyway, on the positive side of things and kind of relating to Jerry's story immediately above, I got a call to come tune a piano I just tuned in October for a young, newly married couple. (Maybe I'm a softie for the woman because she reminds me of my little sister.)

I was a bit curious to hear the piano since, like I said, I was just there in October. Maybe I didn't set the pins right? I'm always frightened perhaps I'm doing something wrong since I still consider myself a "newbie" at tuning.

So I get there and she says, "Well, it's really only a couple of notes here and there." She plays one of the high C#s and I can tell immediately that one of the unisons is out, by at least a half-step. Obviously not normal. Most of the real bad offenders were in the upper treble. "The rest of the piano sounds great," she said.

Sure, enough, the outside right unison was out. The bottom pins of the offending notes were incredibly loose. They didn't feel that bad in October, but Michigan had just recently went though a real warm-spell (it was 50+ degress that day after being in the teens the previous week). I gently tapped the offending pins a bit and suggested that we might want to do a CA treatment on the piano sometime in the future. I tuned the notes, even fixed a keytop that was coming off, and said, "Thanks for calling. I'll call you in six months to see how it's doing and possibly schedule another tuning".

"What do I owe you?"

"Nothing. I'll see you in the spring."

She was thrilled, because she really didn't have the money for a tuning, but just couldn't live with those few unisons being so far out. I even showed her how to tune them herself since she had a tuning hammer and mute from the previous owner of the piano. She agreed to do a CA treatment in the spring, so that will be great.

smile


=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Jim Alfredson
Musician / Tuner
www.organissimo.org
Re: The things you will do for a customer #615911
02/12/09 08:31 PM
02/12/09 08:31 PM
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 4,263
Vancouver B. C. Canada
Silverwood Pianos Offline
4000 Post Club Member
Silverwood Pianos  Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 4,263
Vancouver B. C. Canada
Ah, I knew it!! Just got off the phone with a fellow who thinks “it just needs a tuning"…..When was your piano last tuned sir……don’t remember.

Can you play middle C over the phone for me?

Thanks, this is not middle C anymore this is now B flat below….. Can you tell me what kind of piano it is…..this should be on the front board above the keys…..

Oh yes, it says Whitney……….. [Linked Image] [Linked Image]

Ron, Jerry, anyone, are you busy at all???Need a long distance customer??……help me doctor….help me…..into the Abyss……. [Linked Image]

Dan Silverwood
www.silverwoodpianos.com


Dan Silverwood
www.silverwoodpianos.com
http://silverwoodpianos.blogspot.com/
http://www.facebook.com/SilverwoodPianosDotCom
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur."
Re: The things you will do for a customer #615912
02/12/09 08:50 PM
02/12/09 08:50 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 1,292
North Carolina
Ron Alexander Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Ron Alexander  Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 1,292
North Carolina
Ah Yes!!!! The wonerful Whitney. My sympathies Dan!!!! This week for me been a week of Wurlitzers and a Kimball grand. Here in the Lowlands of the Low-end PianoLand, I just dont think I can take a Whitney, especially one I have to travel to.


-----------------
Ron Alexander
Piano Tuner-Technician
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