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I'm looking at a 1910 Chickering upright on Craig's list. The plate says "International Pitch A 435. Is it OK to bring a piano that was designed to be tuned to A 435 up to A 440?

Bob Runyan
Marysville, CA

It can be done without problems.

BDB, do you mean that it's rarely ever a problem, or that occasionally it's possible to do so without problems?

More often than not, it can be done without causing any problems. I tuned such a Chickering today. It was a problem when I was first asked to tune it, because a bunch of the strings were already broken, but now that it has been restrung (with a better scale), it is not a problem at all.

Depends on the piano too. How much neglect, is it worth tuning, let alone fixing. Many of them, not the -re-strung ones, may have a major rust problem which might affect how many break during a pitch raise.

1910 piano that was engineered to 435. I would be hesitant.

The old one I just tuned had " C517 international pitch 3 "

What does that convert to?

A 435

It came up to 440 no problem. It was a nice old Kohler and Chase. They aren't high strung Knabes. It had no cantilever on the bass bridge and had plenty of backscalelength on A0.

Given an antique piano designed for A 435, what do people feel are the arguments for leaving it at A 435 or tuning it up to A 440? Let's assume that the piano and the strings are mechanically strong enough for the pitch raise. But would there be an argument for leaving it at A 435 in the interest of authenticity? Might the quality of tone of the piano be altered by the pitch raise?

Not as much as it has been altered by age.

It is hard to judge these things. A 435 sounds flat to me, so I do not like to play in that pitch. It is disorienting.

I recently had to do a big pitch raise on a 100-year-old upright. Two midrange strings broke, and I repaired them. Went back to tune it again a few weeks later, but had realized in the meantime that A435 might be safer and more appropriate for this old piano. Was reassured by recent comments that this is not too low for most purposes.

Be careful, though, with vintage European grands manufactured for A435. Pulling these up to A440 could cause damage to the harp - particularly in the pin-well area. Some techs have recognized this potential problem and are reinforcing the weak spots preparatory to rebuilding, so A440 poses no danger.

Two thoughts: How do you (or we) know which piano was made for A 435? It is not marked on most pianos. Just because it is old doesn't mean anything. Contrary to popular notion, the standard pitch for most of the latter half of the 19th century was above 440.

Secondly, designers of vintage instruments did not neccesarily have the capability to calculate the strength and limitations of their plates. The design failures have mostly shown up by this time, the pianos are no longer with us. So, most of the instruments that survive are fairly overbuilt and can probably be tuned to A440, if the woodwork and joinery is in good condition.

My 1881 Bluthner was reconditioned about seven years ago; the strings were replaced, and it was tuned to A 440 (I understand it was previously tuned higher). Since then, I have noticed that the frame is engraved with the words “TIEFE STIMMUNG”, i.e. “low tuning”. So far as I can discover, this means that the piano is designed to be tuned to A 435.



I am now wondering whether it might in some sense be more “authentic” if the piano were tuned to A 435? I don’t have perfect pitch, so I would not be bothered by a sense of being flat (as BDB was). Would the tone of the piano be “truer” if the pitch were lowered?

At the time the piano was made, pitch seems to have been very variable. A 435 had been agreed by a French Commission in 1859, and so must have been some sort of standard. However higher pitches were common at that time (often above A 440, as Jurgen says), and this would be consistent with A 435 being regarded as “low tuning”. Does anyone have any idea what pitch Bluthners without the “Tiefe Stimmung” inscription would have been tuned to? So far as I know, A 440 had no particular significance in those days.

Any thoughts on these questions would be greatly appreciated.

Yes David, what is a "low tuning"?
Here a few refence points, which may well confuse the issue more than anything:

1869 - Leipzig Gewandhaus Orchestra - A 448.2 (Leipzig being the home of Blüthner)
1879 - Steinway New York tuning fork - A 457.2
1879 Steinway London tuning fork - A 454.7
This data was published by Alexander Ellis in 1880.
Maybe a "low tuning " could even be above A 440?

I am not a musicologist, and would be very intrested to hear what real experts in this field have to say.

In the case of your piano, if its pitch was recently lowered to A 440, you are probably safe. Personally I would not see any reason to lower the pitch to A 435.

Good point, Jurgen. These instruments are not always marked for A435. Because I have seen the problem in vintage Bechstein and Grotrian my practice was to be conservative in approach to all similar period Europeans grands, unless I knew the rebuilder to have reinforced the harp - as is current practice with one particular rebuilder in Europe.

My suggestion is simply for the tech to be cautious in raising the pitch on these instruments. Look for the A435 designation, be certain the harp is torqued evenly, examine the pin-well area very carefully for incipient cracking, et al.

An ounce of prevention.

How the heck does a tuner do that?

Jurgen, have you seen this article - "The History of Musical Pitch in Tuning the Pianoforte"?

http://www.mozartpiano.com/articles/pitch.html

Very interesting! It quotes the examples you gave.