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#608429 - 02/18/08 04:11 PM ibach "richard wagner" small concert grand.1895.  
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eddie twang Offline
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[Linked Image].this is a piano l re built 3 years ago..l went and tuned it today so l thought l would take a few shots of this rare beauty!..l am still working out how to take and post pics so please be patient!

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#608430 - 02/18/08 04:17 PM Re: ibach "richard wagner" small concert grand.1895.  
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[Linked Image]

#608431 - 02/18/08 04:21 PM Re: ibach "richard wagner" small concert grand.1895.  
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[Linked Image]

#608432 - 02/18/08 04:22 PM Re: ibach "richard wagner" small concert grand.1895.  
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#608433 - 02/18/08 04:24 PM Re: ibach "richard wagner" small concert grand.1895.  
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[Linked Image]

#608434 - 02/18/08 04:28 PM Re: ibach "richard wagner" small concert grand.1895.  
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[Linked Image]

#608435 - 02/18/08 04:32 PM Re: ibach "richard wagner" small concert grand.1895.  
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[Linked Image]

#608436 - 02/18/08 04:49 PM Re: ibach "richard wagner" small concert grand.1895.  
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this piano was made to commerate richard wagner,who was a devotee of ibach pianos...many of his major works were composed on his ibach grand piano.

#608437 - 02/19/08 02:39 PM Re: ibach "richard wagner" small concert grand.1895.  
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That's quite the amazing beast!

Too bad Ibach wen to out of business a few weeks ago. Founded in 1794, they were the oldest piano makers, still in the hands of the original family.

Incidently, just last week I had my first encounter with one the Asian-built Ibachs from the 80s or 90s. An Asian immigrant family brought it over from Korea. Some say Ibach ruined their reputation by putting these Asian built pianos on the market using their own name. At any rate, this piano was certainly not up to par with the quality of German Ibachs. Too bad.

#608438 - 02/19/08 03:22 PM Re: ibach "richard wagner" small concert grand.1895.  
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eddie twang Offline
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l had no idea ibach had gone bust,thats a crying shame they made some fine instruments.l havent come across any made in asia myself but im not suprised...if you sent a serial number to the company archives you would be given the pianos history.the above piano left the factory on the 30,11,1895,was shipped to london to a dealer who sent them all over the british empire.

#608439 - 02/20/08 12:38 PM Re: ibach "richard wagner" small concert grand.1895.  
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Eddie, I'm not sure how I missed this, but I must say that is a very nice job. I have not heard about Ibach either.


-----------------
Ron Alexander
Piano Tuner-Technician
#608440 - 02/20/08 02:53 PM Re: ibach "richard wagner" small concert grand.1895.  
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eddie twang Offline
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thanks ron,as supply has mentioned ibach were in buisness for a very long time and made some top quality pianos.you dont see many of this model so l thought l would send in some pictures.l had to respray the frame twice because the usual antique gold l use just didnt look right (l think because there is so much brass castings on the frame!).l replaced the hammers,shanks, flanges and damper levers/felts with renner parts and fitted deben bass strings.the longest part of the restoration was polishing the casework...it was never ending!,polishing black pianos is good in that you can use filler to repair damage rather than have to mess about with veneers but bad in that you have to do them to a "bright" finnish so there are no shortcuts.l can quite honestly say that this piano has the best bass sound of any piano l have restored..a real room shaker!.the top treble was a bit dissapointing but it is getting better the more its played,it has a very unique sound.

#608441 - 02/20/08 05:49 PM Re: ibach "richard wagner" small concert grand.1895.  
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Ron Alexander Offline
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Yes, I am familar with Ibach and their history, though have never had an opportunity to put my hammer to one. So sad, the old names keep disappearing or moving manufacture to Asia.


-----------------
Ron Alexander
Piano Tuner-Technician
#608442 - 02/21/08 02:56 PM Re: ibach "richard wagner" small concert grand.1895.  
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eddie twang Offline
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to me the golden age has been and gone.l dont know about you ron but somehow l dont think the pianos built today will last the test of time.on a more cheary note the hammers for my sheidmayer upright arrived from germany today..no rest for the wicked!

#608443 - 02/21/08 06:12 PM Re: ibach "richard wagner" small concert grand.1895.  
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Speaking of the Golden Age. I have read and also heard that for, at least American made pianos, The Golden Age ended when the Great Depression hit in 1929. I think most would agree the era of great American made pianos ended then,. I have seen several pianos from the 1930's, and it is evident manufacturers cut as many corners as possible to stay in business. And we all know what happened after WWII, i.e. smaller, cheaper pianos with a great sacrificate in tonal quality. At least that is true of verticals. But in my opinion some of these points are true of grands.

I admit, I am not well versed on European brands, and would like to know more about the pro's and con's of these pianos during this era.

But I dont have great hopes for most of the Asian pianos being made today.


-----------------
Ron Alexander
Piano Tuner-Technician
#608444 - 02/22/08 03:24 PM Re: ibach "richard wagner" small concert grand.1895.  
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eddie twang Offline
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the first world war marked the end of the great piano in europe,though as mad as it sounds there were some great pianos to come out of germany during the time of mr hitler and his nazis.one of the best german pianos(mainly uprights)were made by "ernst kaps"of dresdon,his pianos were known as "the poor mans steinway",though there was nothing poor about them!but thanks to the royal airforce they never survived the onslaught of ww2(along with many other manufacturers).l have a very poor knowledge of north american brands having only restored an early knabe many years ago so please tell me some good makers!cheers ron.

#608445 - 02/27/08 11:37 AM Re: ibach "richard wagner" small concert grand.1895.  
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Quote
Originally posted by Supply:
That's quite the amazing beast!

Too bad Ibach wen to out of business a few weeks ago. Founded in 1794, they were the oldest piano makers, still in the hands of the original family.

Are you sure about that? There website doesn't indicate this and a google news search from the beginning of the year doesn't turn anything up. Do you have a link to a news story handy? Anycase, would be sad, my GF's family as 1893 (estimate by piano tech) upright that I started my piano career on, so I'm a little sentimental about Ibach pianos...

#608446 - 02/27/08 11:47 PM Re: ibach "richard wagner" small concert grand.1895.  
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No Question, Ibach is gone. Here are a few German press links:

http://www.derwesten.de/nachrichten/waz/2007/12/19/news-11501021/detail.html

http://www.welt.de/wams_print/article1547626/Klavierbauer_Ibach_gibt_nach_ber_200_Jahren_auf.html

Ron, I agree, Kaps pianos are nothing short of wonderful. Another great Dresden company was Rönisch - I have a 7 footer.. Mine was originally sold through a London dealer in 1911 or 1912 and belonged to a Scottish regiment for decades.

#608447 - 02/28/08 02:05 AM Re: ibach "richard wagner" small concert grand.1895.  
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Sehr traurig.


Baldwin SF-10 320152, Marshall & Wendell, Steinway B
#608448 - 02/28/08 03:14 PM Re: ibach "richard wagner" small concert grand.1895.  
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jurgen, dont forget the best..richard lipp..how can a company like that go out of buisness?.l suppose many were in east germany and that was that after ww2...by the way the names eddie!

#608449 - 02/29/08 01:04 AM Re: ibach "richard wagner" small concert grand.1895.  
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Where did I get Ron? Probably from Ron eek .... Sorry Eddie. shocked

I was convinced (but could be wrong ) that Lipp was from Stuttgart (which is not in the East)

Just like in North America, the vast number of German makers were long gone by the 2nd world war. Radio, cars, the economic woes of the late 20s... We can be glad and proud to come across, work on, rebuild and enjoy the legacy they left - their instruments.

#608450 - 02/29/08 03:47 PM Re: ibach "richard wagner" small concert grand.1895.  
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Just wondering if any of you have come across any pianos by Halsmayer of Berlin? (I have a Halsmayer upright, probably early 20c.)

#608451 - 02/29/08 04:38 PM Re: ibach "richard wagner" small concert grand.1895.  
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I have not heard of Halsmayer. There were something like 300 piano makers in the Berlin area alone. Many were small shops that were getting some pre-fab parts from other sources. Today, there is only one company in Berlin, and it isn't even making its pianos in Berlin anymore... wink

#608452 - 03/01/08 01:43 PM Re: ibach "richard wagner" small concert grand.1895.  
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sorry jurgen,lipp are from stuttgart.l was just bemoneing the loss of some great piano makers...the ronish sounds very interesting tell me more?

#608453 - 03/01/08 02:39 PM Re: ibach "richard wagner" small concert grand.1895.  
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More ? You want more? wink

More what? More of my favorite old German pianos?

Berdux from Munich made some amazing pianos, tall, tall uprights and grands with all kinds of novel and sensible ideas, such as low-profile plate struts that were above and below the string plane. In certain sections there were holes in the plate struts through which the strings passed.... lots of other goodies.

Feurich is another. They made some killer pianos - I am glad to see they are making a comeback these days, back in the hands of the original family....
Feurich Pianos

#608454 - 03/01/08 04:18 PM Re: ibach "richard wagner" small concert grand.1895.  
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Ron Alexander Offline
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Eddie wrote:
the ronish sounds very interesting tell me more?

Sounds like a tribe...a tribe of piano makers maybe..hehe

I have found this thread very interesting. I am for the most part completely unfamiliar with most German and other European pianos. But have a pretty good overview of those made in America.
But I have always found the history of the piano industry quite intersting.

Sounds like the German makers went through the same upheaval as the American industry in the 1920's, because of the rise of other mediums of entertainment and due to economic depression.

Most technicians I know would just as soon all these old pianos be taken to the landfills, and wont even bother to take a look at them. I as a rule will look and evaluate them before I tell people they're wasting their money on them. So many were cheap made pianos to begin with. But now and then I do encounter a grand old piano from the early 1900's to the late 1920's that is still tunable. And I find great joy in tuning them, even though they are in most cases a shadow of what they once were. Kind of like an old man!

May favorite American made as far as uprights go is Charles M. Stieff. Favorite grands are the old Mason Hamlins and Chickering & Sons.

Would love to hear more about the fine European makers.


-----------------
Ron Alexander
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#608455 - 03/01/08 04:40 PM Re: ibach "richard wagner" small concert grand.1895.  
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Thanks Jurgen. I guess Halsmayer was one of the minor German makers. The serial number is 10228, so there must have been quite a few of them. I may post pictures of it some time, probably on the Piano Forum.

#608456 - 03/02/08 04:26 PM Re: ibach "richard wagner" small concert grand.1895.  
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jurgen,your right about feurich..another great maker.

#608457 - 03/02/08 07:17 PM Re: ibach "richard wagner" small concert grand.1895.  
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Quote
Originally posted by David-G:
I guess Halsmayer was one of the minor German makers. The serial number is 10228, so there must have been quite a few of them.
Only if they started at # 1 and numbered sequentially, which many minor players did not do, in order to conjure up precisely your assumption among prospective buyers.

#608458 - 03/02/08 07:54 PM Re: ibach "richard wagner" small concert grand.1895.  
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Quote
Originally posted by Supply:
Only if they started at # 1 and numbered sequentially, which many minor players did not do, in order to conjure up precisely your assumption among prospective buyers.
That idea had crossed my mind!

#608459 - 03/04/08 03:27 PM Re: ibach "richard wagner" small concert grand.1895.  
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hi ron,dont get me wrong there are some terrible european pianos.the english made thousands of horrible,cheap,striaght strungs with overdamper actions,both tape check and spring and loop,and made some hideous baby grands with spring and loop actions.the two best english makers are "john brinsmead" and "john broadwood".both made some wonderfull pianos.the french also made some terrible pianos,any restorer who thinks old "erard"grands have anything going for them soon loses that romantic notion when they have worked on a few!..for the very best look to germany and austria.l will do a list of the "goodies" tommorow when l have a bit more time.

#608460 - 02/08/09 07:28 AM Re: ibach "richard wagner" small concert grand.1895.  
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My Parents own an Ibach that had been commisioned by Richard Wagner. My Great Great grandfather travelled to Europe to make some purchases in 1883/84. He was keen to buy a few grand pianos and ship them back to Australia. He visited Ibach. Ibach had just built 2 pianos that had been commisioned by a composer but he had died before payment was made. These 2 pianos were sold to my GG grandfather at a good price. We still have them both in the family. I am interested to know if there is any interest in these pianos and a $ value. Not that we would be interested in selling as we love it. Happy to post a few pics if you are interested.


Amelia xx
#608461 - 02/08/09 08:00 AM Re: ibach "richard wagner" small concert grand.1895.  
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Hello Amelia,

I too found Eddie's thread on this piano, and followed it with one where I was looking for photos of these instruments. This is because some day I hope to reproduce them on my brother's Ibach where the originals have been replaced.
See
1896 Ibach concert grand

On this basis, I'd be very happy if you could post some photos!
Many thanks,
James

#608462 - 02/08/09 11:22 AM Re: ibach "richard wagner" small concert grand.1895.  
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Here are photos from a Kaps grand. Notice that strange construction of the soundboard. Seems to be an additonal sound "case" or resonator on the soundboard. Indeed, Kaps made great instrumens. And I agree with Jürgen´s opinion about Feurich: very nice instruments.

gregor [Linked Image]

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#608463 - 02/08/09 07:04 PM Re: ibach "richard wagner" small concert grand.1895.  
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Wow Eddie ... what a beautiful instrument , congratulations!
I just picked up a George Steck baby grand (late 1940's early 50's) for my first attempt at a restoration. It's in pretty rough shape but the main components seem to be sound. I plan to post pictures of the little monster in a new thread when I figure out a website to host them, Anyway didn't mean to hijack the thread and the GS is not at the level of your outstanding ibach but I find your work very inspirational, thanks for the pictures. Tom Vaughan


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