Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Piano Tuner-Technicians Forum What glue is used on hammer shank?

Hi all, what's the glue used on uprights?
I've seen some are light yellowish, some semi-transparent.

I've not seen what hide glue looks like. What color is hide glue?

thks

Hot hyde glue or yellow carpenters glue is good for gluing on hammers to shanks or hammer shanks to butts.
They both work good but the key is to use a glue that will come loose easily with heat and a bit of moisture and not much persuasion.
Hyde glue is a brownish color.

PVC-E glue seems to be popular these days. It's pretty easy to work with and easy to undo should you make an error.

Where can PVC-E glue be found?
Model shop? Hardware store?

Pls take a pic if you can, thks.

I also don't find the recommended glue for hammer shanks so I just use Elmer's glue. What's not good about this?

JUNMER

Dave,

I think you misunderstood what snoopycar wants the glue for.

The question is for hammer shanks.


Snoopycar,

PVC-E is used for keytops or felt to wood.

You will have very poor results using it for wood to wood. PVC-E is very rubbery.

Thanks to all very much for the info.
At the same time, I might get some of different types of glue to experiment on wood to wood, wood to leather.. this weekend.
(planning to repair a old piano)

Rod,

It wasn't specified what materials are being glued. I guess I should have assumed the parts in question are all wood. Different materials do better with different glues (how's that for deductive reasoning?..)

Kawai, for instance, uses PVC-e glue for gluing shanks into butts. But then again, that's wood to carbon or abs. I think other asian companies use PVC on shank joints, though, judging by the look of it.

Hot hide is ideal if you're doing whole sets. For field repairs, I generally use carpenter's glue because it dries quickly, bonds well, and is easy to clean up.

I think you can find PVC-E at a plastics store. I got a tub from Schaff awhile back.

Is there a difference between carpenter's glue, cabinetmaker's glue, wood glue, and Elmer's, or all they different names for the same stuff?

I do realize, BTW, that PVC-E is different from those I mentioned above.

I purchase PVC-E in a 5 gallon pale. I am not able to find it in any stores. I special order it from a glue manufacture. Purchasing it from a piano parts distributor is just not cost effective, unless you use very little.

Yes, it is excellent for leather as well.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe Elmer's white glue isn't water soluble. If that's what you're using, the problem would be for a future tech wanting to dissolve the bond. For making any glue joints in a piano, I think Elmer's white glue is now pretty much discouraged.

Jeff

I have used Titebond Molding and Trim Wood Glue. It has a fairly thick consistency, and strong initial tack. In other words, if you glue something like a hammerhead back on, it will stay in position. It doesn't run or drip easily. Someone told me that it does come loose with heat, although I've never tried it personally.

Hot hyde glue works well, but you have to heat it up. Cold hyde glue works, but it doesn't set up very quickly. If you glue something like a hammer shank, it's prone to slide out of position unless you clamp it somehow. It takes a long time to dry.

I use Titebond regular, (not the waterproof formula) for house calls. Tacks fairly quickly and comes apart easily with heat. The excess cleans up easily with a damp cloth. I used the cooked hide glue in the shop for doing a bunch of them. The liquid stuff works, but it's slippery and takes too long to tack.

Rod:
A five gallon bucket? What are you doing, drinking it? Painting your house with it? That would be a 20 year supply for me, and it would go bad long before that.

Elmer's white glue will be satisfactory, and can be removed with water. It is very similar to the carpenter's glue, but it tends not to be as hard when it dries, so it can be messy to clean up. For hammers it should be fine, but it may not be as good for other wood to wood uses.

The biggest improvement I have had gluing hammer shanks was getting a shank knurler. Every tech should have one. You can roll a shank under a coarse file to knurl it for gluing in a pinch, but a knurler does it more accurately.

Roy,

I host our PTG meeting here in our shop every month so I am often giving glue away to my colleagues. Sharing it, is better than it spoiling.

Also we use plenty of PVC-E between the refinishing shop and in rebuilding actions, felt, leather, rubber buttons, etc.

It lasts me just over a year.

I surly don't drink it!!!!

Someone emailed me and asked if it is good for keybushings. The answer is NO It is terrible for keybushings. You will be forever easing the keys. You need a glue that sets hard like Hot hide or even the Bolduc Acoustic Glue.

I did some research. Genuine hide glue looks like a great product for use with pianos - probably why it's been used for so long. It does take a bit more work to prepare, with strict temperature limits (140 degrees) and the need to avoid cooling and re-heating.

Genuine hide glue (i.e. not the liquid kind):

* Forms a very strong bond

* Is long-lasting

* Is self-clamping

* Sticks to old hide glue, unlike synthetic glues

* Breaks cleanly, without taking chunks of the wood it's holding with it (heat and moisture are reputed to help break the bond).

* Dries fairly quickly

* Has an indefinite shelf life in its unused dry (granule) form.

On the downside, it:

* Does not fill gaps well - must be applied to two exact-fitting pieces.

* Must be mixed with water at about 140 degrees. Any hotter and the bond weakens.

* Must be used shortly after mixing, or maintained at about 140 degrees. Hence, the glue pot.

Check out the Wikipedia article:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hide_glue

I plan to use genuine hide glue for any work I do on my piano.

This is a fun site:

http://www.thistothat.com/

--Cy--

Please cite an example of wooden piano parts that are not good to apply Elmer's glue on.


JUNMER