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#606860 - 02/16/09 06:36 AM Tunelab question  
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 515
wayne walker Offline
500 Post Club Member
wayne walker  Offline
500 Post Club Member

Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 515
Windsor,Nova Scotia Canada
I have the trail version of Tunelab Pro on my laptop. I have used it a few times but continue to used my SAT 3. I like the tunings produced by Tunelab but fine it more time consuming to get the display to stop or centered. I know this is a more accurate display than rotating LED's. My question when you sample your 6 C's for a new tuning file and are presented with the tuning curve what should you be looking for or doing to the curve. Is it okay to leave it along or should you do some a adjusting.


Wayne Walker
Walker's Piano Service
http://www.walkerpiano.ca/
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#606861 - 02/16/09 09:00 AM Re: Tunelab question  
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 2,539
David Jenson Offline
2000 Post Club Member
David Jenson  Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 2,539
Maine
You might find the trial version easier to use than the hiker oriented "trail" version that you have. laugh

As with any ETD, you should learn to use your ears as the final judge. I follow a lot of ETD tuners who are not listening to what they are doing. The clients didn't like what they heard and call me , or an ETD tuner who is also using his ears.

ETDs seem to be great as a tuning tool, but not so great as a final judge of note placement. ('Looking for my flame suit. 'Can't seem to find it. 'Yikes!)


David L. Jenson
Tuning - Repairs - Refurbishing
Jenson's Piano Service
-----
#606862 - 02/16/09 01:47 PM Re: Tunelab question  
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 2,010
Keith Roberts Online content
2000 Post Club Member
Keith Roberts  Online Content
2000 Post Club Member

Joined: May 2004
Posts: 2,010
Murphys, Ca
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smokin


Keith Roberts
Keith's Piano Service
Hathaway Pines,Ca
#606863 - 02/16/09 03:40 PM Re: Tunelab question  
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 11,334
Rickster Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Rickster  Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 11,334
Georgia, USA
Hi Wayne,

These guys are just having a little fun. They are the greatest guys in the world, but they do like to have a little fun with us novices. laugh

What I did after taking the inharmonisity measurements (remember to do only one string on the bi-cords and tri-cords) was to look at the tuning curve and compare it with the other trial (I mean trail wink ) tuning files in TuneLab. If it looks similar, you are probably Okay. You can manually adjust the tuning curve as you go if you like.

Of course, I’m still learning about TuneLab myself.

Take care,

Rick


Piano enthusiast and amateur musician: "Treat others the way you would like to be treated". Yamaha C7. YouTube Channel
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#606864 - 02/16/09 04:13 PM Re: Tunelab question  
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 2,539
David Jenson Offline
2000 Post Club Member
David Jenson  Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 2,539
Maine
Keith,

"The Holier Than Thou" sounds about right for me. It'll replace my "Emperor Of The Universe" model that I seem to have misplaced. That Emperor model was the best. No matter what you said, everyone had to agree with you. I'm really gonna' miss it!


David L. Jenson
Tuning - Repairs - Refurbishing
Jenson's Piano Service
-----
#606865 - 02/16/09 04:39 PM Re: Tunelab question  
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 515
wayne walker Offline
500 Post Club Member
wayne walker  Offline
500 Post Club Member

Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 515
Windsor,Nova Scotia Canada
Hi Rick,
I been tuning for about 25 years, so novice I'm not. I been using Sanderson 1 and 111 tuners since I started and yes my ears are the final test. I downloaded Tunelab and have try it on a few pianos. I was just wondering about the adjustable tuning curve. Using the Sanderson I don't have to adjust anything after I take my FAC readings so I was wondering the purpose the adjustable tuning curve in Tunelab.

How much are the flame suits in Canadian dollars?


Wayne Walker
Walker's Piano Service
http://www.walkerpiano.ca/
#606866 - 02/16/09 05:11 PM Re: Tunelab question  
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 4,604
Bob Offline
4000 Post Club Member
Bob  Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 4,604
Florida
I use 6/3 bass and 4/2 treble octaves with auto adjust. After measuring, the curves screen appears. Tap the octave adjust buttons to auto adjust the curves. I wish TuneLab had a double octave beat adjustment like the SAT's but I hear that's patented to SAT.

With experience, you will know if you got a good measurement sample, and it's always good to take 2 or 3 samples from each note and combine them. Like the SAT, volume of the note sampled makes a difference in the sample.

#606867 - 02/16/09 06:56 PM Re: Tunelab question  
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 2,010
Keith Roberts Online content
2000 Post Club Member
Keith Roberts  Online Content
2000 Post Club Member

Joined: May 2004
Posts: 2,010
Murphys, Ca
The double octave beat (correct me if I'm wrong) is just a button that expands the center octave by 1/2 cent. You will hear the beat in the double octave before you can hear it in the single octave.


Keith Roberts
Keith's Piano Service
Hathaway Pines,Ca
#606868 - 02/16/09 07:18 PM Re: Tunelab question  
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 571
Anne Francis Offline
500 Post Club Member
Anne Francis  Offline
500 Post Club Member

Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 571
Toronto, ON
When you tap on the four "auto" buttons, hold your stylus on the button for a second until the green arrow appears, that way you know it's accepted the command. (Sometimes if you just tap lightly nothing happens.)


Anne Francis
Piano Tuner-Technician

Check out my blog! www.annefrancis.ca/blog

1906 Heintzman upright (rebuilt)
#606869 - 02/16/09 09:04 PM Re: Tunelab question  
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 476
Jeff A. Smith, RPT Offline
Full Member
Jeff A. Smith, RPT  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 476
Angola, Indiana USA
Quote
The double octave beat (correct me if I'm wrong) is just a button that expands the center octave by 1/2 cent.
SAT III's Double Octave Beat Adjustment expands or contracts the FAC tuning's A2-A4 double octave by tenth of a cent increments, anywhere within the range of +2 bps to -2 bps. But changes to the A2-A4 double octave are also applied to the rest of the tuning, with the effect being more drastic as you go up or down the scale from A2-A4.

DOBA can either be used before tuning, to alter the entire FAC tuning, or it can be quickly applied during a tuning, to match aurally-demanded changes on the fly.

I've personally used it quite a bit through the tenor and treble sections, sometimes adding and subtracting stretch a number of times as I work up the scale. I haven't found it to be as useful in the bass. When using SAT III and tuning this way, with all the usual aural checks as I go, I'll tune through the tenor and treble first. Then I'll zero DOBA out again and tune down through the bass, switching to aural only or direct interval ETD tuning when needed.

DOBA is patented. In terms of quickly adjusting stretch on the fly, it definitely beats having to go back into software programming and work by trial and error.

Last year I asked Dr. Sanderson if DOBA would also work on saved aural tunings, and he said yes.

Note: I referred to SAT III because that's what I have. The new SAT IV has DOBA also. Sometime back I commented that I thought SAT IV probably uses the same processor as SAT III. Apparently that isn't true.

Jeff


Jeff A. Smith
Registered Piano Technician
Indiana, USA
#606870 - 02/16/09 10:28 PM Re: Tunelab question  
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 11,334
Rickster Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Rickster  Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 11,334
Georgia, USA
Sorry, Wayne, I owe you an apology here… I didn’t notice that you were a seasoned piano tech. So, I stand corrected; you are certainly not a novice. However, I am somewhat of a novice compared to most on this forum. I thought I was being helpful and I honestly thought these guys were funning with you a little. I thought they only did that with us DIY tuners. laugh

Take care,

Rick


Piano enthusiast and amateur musician: "Treat others the way you would like to be treated". Yamaha C7. YouTube Channel
#606871 - 02/17/09 05:47 AM Re: Tunelab question  
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 515
wayne walker Offline
500 Post Club Member
wayne walker  Offline
500 Post Club Member

Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 515
Windsor,Nova Scotia Canada
Quote
Originally posted by Rickster:
Sorry, Wayne, I owe you an apology here… I didn’t notice that you were a seasoned piano tech. So, I stand corrected; you are certainly not a novice. However, I am somewhat of a novice compared to most on this forum. I thought I was being helpful and I honestly thought these guys were funning with you a little. I thought they only did that with us DIY tuners. laugh

Take care,

Rick
no offense taken. I just wanted to learn more about Tunelab and sometimes it is easier to take to others. The manual can be somewhat vague on explaining things.


Wayne Walker
Walker's Piano Service
http://www.walkerpiano.ca/
#606872 - 02/17/09 06:01 AM Re: Tunelab question  
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 88
Magz Offline
Full Member
Magz  Offline
Full Member

Joined: May 2008
Posts: 88
Illinois
Anne,

Thanks for that tidbit of info. I make sure I hold the buttons next time. I haven't up to this point so I'm pretty sure nothing registered.

Thanks


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