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Major 7th vs Dominant 7th #605020
11/16/07 02:54 PM
11/16/07 02:54 PM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 27
florida
oldie101 Offline OP
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oldie101  Offline OP
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 27
florida
I love a piano, As you can tell from my questions l'm out in left field.
What is the difference between a Major 7th & a Dominant 7th? Thanks for all the good help i'm getting in these forums.


oldie
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Re: Major 7th vs Dominant 7th #605021
11/16/07 02:58 PM
11/16/07 02:58 PM
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 97
I
IpsoPhatso Offline
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IpsoPhatso  Offline
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 97
If we take a C chord...

C7 would be spelled C-E-G-Bb
CMaj7 would be spelled C-E-G-B

Re: Major 7th vs Dominant 7th #605022
11/16/07 03:00 PM
11/16/07 03:00 PM
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 180
new york
bryan s Offline
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bryan s  Offline
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Posts: 180
new york
To be more specific, a major 7 is a major triad with the major 7th, and a dominant 7 is a major triad with a minor 7th.


John Coltrane saved my life.
Re: Major 7th vs Dominant 7th #605023
11/16/07 04:57 PM
11/16/07 04:57 PM
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 560
So.Cal.USA
M
Mike A Offline
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Mike A  Offline
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M
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 560
So.Cal.USA
Oldie,

Here's a reference that might help put this in context for you (or it might be more than you want to know!) ...
www.outsideshore.com/primer/primer/ms-primer-4-1.html

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Re: Major 7th vs Dominant 7th #605024
11/17/07 01:11 PM
11/17/07 01:11 PM
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 4,534
G
Gyro Offline
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Gyro  Offline
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G
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 4,534
The dominant 7th is unique in its construction,
having a diminished 5th interval between
the 2nd and 4th notes of the chord, which
is preserved in all three inversions of
the chord. No other chord has this
quality. Therefore, it is often used
in place of a maj. triad on the 5th
scale degree, since a maj. triad can
be harmonically ambiguous; for example,
a G maj. triad could be V in C maj., but also
IV in D maj., etc. Thus, the the dominant
7th chord is essentially a musical idiom to
signal, unequivocably, "V in a maj. key"
(either outright or implied). It is unique
in this sense and has no other
harmonic function.

Re: Major 7th vs Dominant 7th #605025
11/17/07 01:27 PM
11/17/07 01:27 PM
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 4,534
G
Gyro Offline
4000 Post Club Member
Gyro  Offline
4000 Post Club Member
G
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 4,534
The dominant 7th is unique in its construction,
having a diminished 5th interval between
the 2nd and 4th notes of the chord, which
is preserved in all three inversions of
the chord. No other chord has this
quality. Therefore, it is often used
in place of a maj. triad on the 5th
scale degree, since a maj. triad can
be harmonically ambiguous; for example,
a G maj. triad could be V in C maj., but also
IV in D maj., etc. Thus, the the dominant
7th chord is essentially a musical idiom to
signal, unequivocably, "V in a maj. key"
(either outright or implied). It is unique
in this sense and has no other
harmonic function.

Re: Major 7th vs Dominant 7th #605026
11/17/07 01:40 PM
11/17/07 01:40 PM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 2,618
Geneva, Switzerland
PoStTeNeBrAsLuX Offline
2000 Post Club Member
PoStTeNeBrAsLuX  Offline
2000 Post Club Member
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 2,618
Geneva, Switzerland
The dominant 7th is unique in its construction, having a diminished 5th interval between the 2nd and 4th notes of the chord, which is preserved in all three inversions of the chord. No other chord has this quality.

Diminished 7th? e.g. B-D-F-Ab. This has diminished 5th between 2nd and 4th notes, (and indeed between 1st and 3rd), which are retained in all inversions. Just because things are posted twice doesn't necessarily make them right wink

-Michael B.


There are two rules to success in life: Rule #1. Don't tell people everything you know.
Re: Major 7th vs Dominant 7th #605027
11/18/07 02:32 PM
11/18/07 02:32 PM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 471
San Diego, CA
F
fuzzy8balls Offline
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fuzzy8balls  Offline
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F
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 471
San Diego, CA
Some more theory to put this in perspective...

Regular chords are built upon diatonic thirds. Regular triads are two sets of thirds built upon the root. Seventh chords are three sets of thirds built upon the root.

Take for example in the key of C major, C is the tonic and G is the "dominant".

C - E - G - B

This is a major 7th chord because we have a major 3rd on top of a C major triad.

However if we go to the fifth, G, or "dominant" of C and build up a chord from there we get:

G - B - D - F

This is a dominant seventh because there is a minor 3rd on top of a G major triad. The chord is formed this way because it is diatonic (within the key) of C

This is where you get the term "dominant" 7th because usually when you're on a dominant chord (5th degree) it is the only chord that will have a major third and a minor seventh throughout the entire key's natural key signature.

This is just for the major mode.

BTW, Gyro, the second and third inversions of a dominant 7th chord have augmented fourths and not diminished fifths.

Ex. for C7 in 2nd inversion, (G Bb C E), Bb to E is an augmented 4th.

Re: Major 7th vs Dominant 7th #605028
11/18/07 07:05 PM
11/18/07 07:05 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 2,480
Alexandria, Egypt
Bassio Offline
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Bassio  Offline
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 2,480
Alexandria, Egypt
So there is no dominant seventh in minor mode?

What is the substitute? The minor seventh I assume. Or is it the diminished seventh? What else?

Re: Major 7th vs Dominant 7th #605029
11/18/07 09:00 PM
11/18/07 09:00 PM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 135
Seattle
Markeyz Offline
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Markeyz  Offline
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 135
Seattle
There is a dominant 7th chord built off of the seventh degree of the natural minor (aolian) mode and the diatonic v chord would be a minor or minor seventh chord.

This situation, and the desire for a half step melodic leading tone from the seventh scale degree to the root are the reasons for the melodic and harmonic minor scales, both of which contain a raised seventh and thus a dominant V7 chord.


Jazz pianist and teacher.

http://www.marchager.com
Re: Major 7th vs Dominant 7th #605030
11/18/07 11:25 PM
11/18/07 11:25 PM
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 2,230
A
Antonius Hamus Offline
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Antonius Hamus  Offline
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A
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 2,230
Quote
Originally posted by Bassio:
So there is no dominant seventh in minor mode?
The third scale degree is what colors the minor mode minor (or the major mode major). Dominant 7th doesn't use the third scale degree. You can find it in many cadences in minor key pieces.

Re: Major 7th vs Dominant 7th #605031
11/19/07 02:52 PM
11/19/07 02:52 PM
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 180
new york
bryan s Offline
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bryan s  Offline
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 180
new york
Harmonic minor has a dominant 7th as the V chord.


John Coltrane saved my life.

Moderated by  Brendan, Kreisler 

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