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chopin etudes are MUSIC too you know!!!

but some etudes have to be played fast (at tempo) to be effective. some piece just can not be played in too slow tempo, or it would become a totally different piece. a good example of it is Bach's prelude in c minor (WTC1). if you play it in adagio/andante tempo, it would sound totally strange and loose its harmonic meaning entirely.

You try telling Gavrilov that.

I disagree. I think such an approach would sound musically viable. IMO almost all of Bach's music works at a very wide variety of tempos.

maybe you're right, but it would just sound like a different piece though. maybe it works for Bach (although i still doubt it), but not for Chopin or Beethoven. try to play 'moonlight' 1st movement super fast and see what happens, or play Hammerklavier 1st movement in adagio, and see how it would sound like. i always assume there's only a narrow range of tempo which would suit for a particular piece in general.

and about this topic, i just thought of it when i watched that video of that julliard guy, koji something. WHY did he play the thirds etude like that??? i cant hear ANYTHING anymore at that tempo. it was such a joke. not to mention his disgusting gesture toward the camera, URGH! is this what pianists have come to these days?!?! and that guy has a DOCTORATE, seriously!

Hilariously I should know who this is

It's all about clarity. If you play something really fast and mushy, it'll sound horrible. But if you play it too slow, it will also sound horrible.

The truth is, a lot of music can be played at a range of tempi, and with a good amount of clarity and control, some music can be taken at extremely fast tempi and still sound like music.

Chopin's Etude 10/12, the 'Revolutionary', is marked in my score at q=180. That's very, very, very fast! But if you play it clearly and with a great amount of control, that could sound very powerful, and very musical.

Clearly he was just messing around. Don't be so sensitive.

My teacher told me that Paderewski and Gabrilowitsch played more deliberately than other pianists. She deplored the 'mania for speed' which kills the musicality of the piece. I heard Ilana Vered play the Moszkowski Etude in F, Op. 72 at a speed that lost any kind of musical content. Pounding and speed seem to be the driving forces of pianists these days instead of musical content. Granted, some pieces call for speed but that call should be tempered with respect for the musical content. Also granted is that some bravura pieces demand every ounce of prestissimo one can muster but some semblance of musical content should be retained even then.

Koji seems to be one of those pounders and wrote in one of the threads that in his exuberance he broke a black key. One of Lowenthal's students who gave a recital in Beaufort, SC stood up and said he was pounding--and he sure was. At a recital at Fripp Island, after the program a lady, knowledgable, asked me if I thought the piano was worth resurrecting now. The days of glorious tone exemplified by artists of the past seems to have gone by the wayside.

Also, when the dynamic markings are, forte, fortissimo, or anything beyond that, people have a tendency to associate loud with fast.

Yeah, that koji something guy...what a jerkoff.

koji

Chopin's own metronome markings for the etudes are what I would call very fast. And some of Clara Schumann's recommendations are bordering on insane. And then there's Beethoven's symphony markings. Unless their metronomes were broken, I think if anything people played even faster in the 19th century. Not that this answers the question.

There can certainly be such a thing as too fast, even in a virtuoso piece like Chopin's Etude Op. 10, No. 4. I've heard all too many performances of this piece where the notes run so fast that everything turns into a mishmash. Sometimes pianists will use excessive tempos to disguise insufficient technique--the above piece is a case in point.

If you can, and the piece still sounds good, and in some semblance of what the composer desired, then I don't see it as a problem. If, however, it chalks up to mediocrity, then I suppose this is where I find a conflict of interests.

Well I'm pretty sure that's what the whole point of it was: a joke.

I still remember that thread...heh...it was full of angry music students. Ohhhh, the memories. :p

I'm not so sure it's a conscious association so much as it is subconscious. When you play loud, you slam your hands down quickly on the keyboard, whereas when you play softly you take your time and really delicately touch the keys. So, when you play loud you naturally play faster, unless you can control it.

Of course, then emotions get tied in as well. When you're playing loud music, you get very emotional and tend to rush and just bang through the whole piece.

Control is really a key issue to deal with when playing the piano. It's quite a difficult task to control something as loud and fast as a Chopin Etude, but without it, the whole piece sounds rushy and mushy, and overall not so pleasant.

Have you guys listen to Richter's recording of Chopin etude op.10 no.4?

1) Do you think it still musical at that speed?

2) but more important, it's a valid interpretation? (¿Interpretation of what Chopin would desire?)

Yes and Yes

Who cares what Chopin desired?

Well, that's perhaps a bit harsh.

As performers of Chopin's work, we must try and figure out what it is that he wanted to convey in this work, and how he interpreted it and would have liked it to be played.

As interpreters of Chopin's work, we must look at it and listen to it and feel it and figure out what it is that we want to convey in this work, and how we interpret it and like it to be played.

I'm not talking about changing notes (that's what we would call transcribing). I'm talking about interpretation - tempo, dynamics, rubato, pedaling, final say in what message is being conveyed.

Why should I play it Chopin's way if I think my way is better?