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#602352 12/07/07 11:38 AM
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We are all lucky to play what is one of the most self-complete of instruments (only the organ surpasses in this respect IMO) with such a large solo repertoire (both known and unknown) and which the art music public embraces so readily. And we all know that accompanying and chamber music can be a drag sometimes in the sense that it can take away valuable time from practicing solo work. But surely we all have chamber music with piano that we love just as much as our favorite works in the solo repertoire, the stuff that makes us wish that we had instrumental colleagues to get together with to perform? So why don't we share our chamber music with piano favorites (including duo sonatas, four hand works, and non-piano concerto reductions). I'll start with my list:

Bach:
Gamba sonata in G minor -- if one can't get period instruments, this works very well with cello and piano as Gould/Rose and Argerich/Maisky demonstrated

Mozart:
Sonata for two pianos in D major -- infectious!
Quintet for piano and winds -- Mozart called this "his best" work at one point

Beethoven:
Violin Sonata in Eb Op. 12 #3 -- impetuous early Beethoven
Violin Sonata in C minor Op. 30 #2 -- the equivalent of the "Tempest" sonata
Violin Sonata in G Op. 96 -- hints of the late period; BTW did anyone notice how the third movement of Mahler's Second seems to quote the trio of the third movement of this sonata (perhaps unconsciously)?

Schumann:
Piano Trio in D minor -- elegiac, even the D major last movement seems to smile through tears
Piano Quartet -- I prefer this to the mini-concerto Quintet;

Brahms:
Being a Brahmsian, I love it all dearly! If forced at gunpoint I suppose the following would stick out:
Two Piano Sonata in F minor -- IMO more effective than the later version for piano and string quartet
Cello Sonata in E minor
Violin Sonatas in G major and D minor
Both Clarinet Sonatas (did the Eb once)
Clarinet Trio (which I prefer to the more famous Clarinet Quintet)
Piano trios in B major (revised version), A major, and C minor
Piano Quartet in C minor -- so angsty!
Violin Concerto -- yes, I love this work so much that I would suffer through learning a reduction (sightread it with a violinist acquaintance once)

Schubert:
"Trockne Blumen" Variations

Reinecke:
"Undine" Sonata

The flute being my second instrument, both works above make me regret that one can't play both instruments at the same time (actually it is possible, but with limitations, and there are works for one performer playing both instruments!)

Prokofiev:
Cello Sonata in C -- a prime example of the lyric late Prokofiev

Faure (another composer who I have a great weakness for):
Piano Quartet in G minor
Piano Quintet in D minor
Violin Sonata in E minor -- adventurous harmonies

And my naughty list:

Chopin:
Piano trio -- what was he thinking?!?!? Maybe the original string performers were sleepwalkers....

Schubert: Arpeggione Sonata
Franck: Violin Sonata
I've listened to every conceivable version of these two works (well, except the ones for didgeridoo) and have yet to find anything that appeals to me...


Die Krebs gehn zurucke,
Die Stockfisch bleiben dicke,
Die Karpfen viel fressen,
Die Predigt vergessen.

Die Predigt hat g'fallen.
Sie bleiben wie alle.
#602353 12/07/07 11:47 AM
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Janus,

I also love chamber music too.

Mozart's 2 Piano Quartets are real gems. I particularly like the G-minor. Although the E-flat isn't so bad eithe. smile

His various trios are super too - very much like his piano sonatas.

Haydn's trios are great too. I played one of them, and loved it.

Beethoven's Violin Sonatas are wonderfull, especially the "Spring Sonata".

And his piano trios are glorious. They are just as difficult as his solo piano works in my opinion.

Of course with Schubert, we have his "Trout Quintet", and this three piano trios.

Mendelssohn's chamber works are really wonderful, and extremely difficult too.

I was lucky when I was younger because my piano teacher belonged to a chamber music group. She would perform a series of chamber concerts just about every other Sunday. The excitement of hearing a live recital was so great, and the music was absolutely super because all of the trio members were professional musicians from New England and Oberlin.

John


Current works in progress:

Beethoven Sonata Op. 10 No. 2 in F, Haydn Sonata Hoboken XVI:41, Bach French Suite No. 5 in G BWV 816

Current instruments: Schimmel-Vogel 177T grand, Roland LX-17 digital, and John Lyon unfretted Saxon clavichord.
#602354 12/07/07 12:04 PM
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I beg to differ that accompanying can be a drag. I absolutely love doing it! I think this is why many people prefer to call accompanists "collaborative pianists". Accompanist connotes that we play a second-hand role, when in fact, it is equally important for both to be present and skillful for a good performance.

I love working with other instrumentalists, though I am limited in my experience here. However, I play with many vocalists on a daily basis, and I truly enjoy it. The music is wonderful:

Schubert - any of his art songs
Vaughan Williams - some of my very favorite pieces
Faure - gorgeous and challenging pieces
Schumann - very pianistic and unique
and for more modern stuff: Mark Hayes - enjoyable pianistic parts which often incorporates jazzy/gospel chords and rhythms

And then there is opera literature, which presents challenges of 1) imitating different instruments on the piano 2) making the best of transcriptions, which may involve reworking some of the notes or dropping notes that are unplayable while not losing the character of the content 3) more drama in playing this literature. There is such a wealth of music in this field alone, not to mention all of the solo instrumental works one could "collaborate" on.


private piano/voice teacher FT

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#602355 12/07/07 12:05 PM
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Bloch: Suite for Viola and Piano


Sam
#602356 12/07/07 12:21 PM
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Quote
Originally posted by Morodiene:
I beg to differ that accompanying can be a drag. I absolutely love doing it!
Actually, I quite agree with you. I suppose it can be a "drag" for me specifically because I'm only an average sightreader and a very slow learner (especially when beginning a new piece), so practicing piano parts of worthwhile chamber music up to the technical standards of performing solo works can be quite a challenge for me. So I suppose only my limited skills make it a "drag" for me. But I've done a fair amount of accompanying in the past, and when you get together with musicians that you click with, it's such a joyful experience (and I for one make less mistakes than in performing solo works simply because the spotlight is on the ensemble, not on me alone; if only I can view performing solo with as much fun as performing as part of a duo or ensemble).
And I agree that the vocal literature is wonderful too -- I've accompanied numbers from Mozart operas and many art songs. Hopefully I'll get the opportunity to collaborate with a tenor in Schubert's song cycles!


Die Krebs gehn zurucke,
Die Stockfisch bleiben dicke,
Die Karpfen viel fressen,
Die Predigt vergessen.

Die Predigt hat g'fallen.
Sie bleiben wie alle.
#602357 12/07/07 01:56 PM
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Quote
Originally posted by Janus Sachs:
Schubert:
"Trockne Blumen" Variations

Reinecke:
"Undine" Sonata

The flute being my second instrument, both works above make me regret that one can't play both instruments at the same time...
Then don't forget the Prokofiev Flute Sonata. Magnificent piece- I've played it along with the Reinecke.

Speaking of the latter, as anyone noticed parts of it seem directly taken from Schumann's Kreisleriana?

Also the Schubert Arpeggione Sonata exists in a nifty version for flute. It's also fun to play, though I can't claim it to be Schubert at his greatest.


Jason
#602358 12/07/07 02:00 PM
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Quote
Originally posted by Janus Sachs:
Chopin:
Piano trio -- what was he thinking?!?!? Maybe the original string performers were sleepwalkers....
It's just a weakly accompanied piano concerto. smokin


Jason
#602359 12/07/07 02:12 PM
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Quote
Originally posted by argerichfan:
Then don't forget the Prokofiev Flute Sonata. Magnificent piece- I've played it along with the Reinecke.

Speaking of the latter, as anyone noticed parts of it seem directly taken from Schumann's Kreisleriana?

Also the Schubert Arpeggione Sonata exists in a nifty version for flute. It's also fun to play, though I can't claim it to be Schubert at his greatest.
Re: Undine, which parts do you speak of? I'm playing both works in my head at the moment and so far am drawing a blank in terms of similarity of motives/themes. In a broader sense Reinecke was indeed heavily influenced by both Schumann and Mendelssohn.
Strangely enough I've never loved Prokofiev's Flute Sonata as much as I should, which is odd, I know.
As for the Schubert, it really refuses to capture me. I listened to a few flute versions. I even attended a performance with a wonderful violist and pianist and it still didn't stick. I still think that the last movement has too much "heavenly length."


Die Krebs gehn zurucke,
Die Stockfisch bleiben dicke,
Die Karpfen viel fressen,
Die Predigt vergessen.

Die Predigt hat g'fallen.
Sie bleiben wie alle.
#602360 12/07/07 02:16 PM
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Quote
Originally posted by argerichfan:
Quote
Originally posted by Janus Sachs:
Chopin:
Piano trio -- what was he thinking?!?!? Maybe the original string performers were sleepwalkers....
It's just a weakly accompanied piano concerto. smokin
Heh, so I suppose the Rachmaninoff Cello Sonata could be called a strongly accompanied piano concerto? I have a weakness for the Rachmaninoff, though I still prefer the Prokofiev.


Die Krebs gehn zurucke,
Die Stockfisch bleiben dicke,
Die Karpfen viel fressen,
Die Predigt vergessen.

Die Predigt hat g'fallen.
Sie bleiben wie alle.
#602361 12/07/07 03:38 PM
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Quote
Originally posted by Janus Sachs:
Heh, so I suppose the Rachmaninoff Cello Sonata could be called a strongly accompanied piano concerto?
LOL, but the Rachmaninov is such glorious music, so who cares? 3hearts

Another "weakly" accompanied piano concerto is the Chopin Cello Sonata. Yeah, I know it's late Chopin, and supposed to share the profundities of the Barcarolle, the late Mazurkas, the 4th Impromptu and the Polonaise-Fantasie, but I've never warmed to it, even when stellar performers of the calibre of Rostropovich and Argerich have a go at it.

I'll get back to you re the Reinecke. I'm away from any scores at the moment, though libations are certainly close at hand... wink


Jason
#602362 12/07/07 03:51 PM
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Quote
Originally posted by argerichfan:
Another "weakly" accompanied piano concerto is the Chopin Cello Sonata. Yeah, I know it's late Chopin, and supposed to share the profundities of the Barcarolle, the late Mazurkas, the 4th Impromptu and the Polonaise-Fantasie, but I've never warmed to it, even when stellar performers of the calibre of Rostropovich and Argerich have a go at it.

I'll get back to you re the Reinecke. I'm away from any scores at the moment, though libations are certainly close at hand... wink
The Chopin cello sonata kinda grew on me slowly. I don't listen to it too often, but when I do it does at least satisfy me. But yeah, it still has balance problems, though it's not as cursing absurd as that damn trio.
Oh, when you get to the Reinecke, could you refer to structural points (second theme of first mvt. coda of last mvt., etc.) rather than measure numbers? I don't have access to most of my library.
As for libations ... go knock yourself out! :p


Die Krebs gehn zurucke,
Die Stockfisch bleiben dicke,
Die Karpfen viel fressen,
Die Predigt vergessen.

Die Predigt hat g'fallen.
Sie bleiben wie alle.
#602363 12/07/07 04:50 PM
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I personally like the following:

Poulenc - Flute Sonata (standard repertoire, but for good reason)
Donizetti - Flute Sonata in C (a one-movement gem, and not too hard if you know your scales)
Messiaen - Quatuor pour le fin du temps (of course)
Oña - Andere Stimmen for piano six hands (unusual, but very evocative)


I have an ice cream. I cannot mail it, for it will melt.
#602364 12/07/07 11:53 PM
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One of my very favorite chamber pieces is Czerny's Grande Sérénade Concertante, for clarinet, horn, cello & piano, Op. 126, with its wonderful melodies and Czerny's glittering piano:

Czerny Op.126

Utterly delightful.


Mel


"Love has nothing to do with what you are expecting to get, only what you are expecting to give, which is everything. You give because you love and cannot help giving." Katharine Hepburn
#602365 12/08/07 02:07 AM
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No time for more than a quick listing of a few favourites:

Brahms F major cello sonata; all the violin sonatas; the E flat clarinet sonata (though I like it best with viola)
Schubert A major violin sonata. And I actually like the Arpeggione, though once again I prefer it with viola.
Frank Bridge cello sonata
Both Schubert piano trios
Just about the entire Lieder repertoire smile


Du holde Kunst...
#602366 12/08/07 02:35 AM
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Quote
Originally posted by Janus Sachs:
Oh, when you get to the Reinecke, could you refer to structural points (second theme of first mvt. coda of last mvt., etc.) rather than measure numbers? I don't have access to most of my library.
The score of the Reinecke is with the flutist I played for, therefore she has the score. But one of the inner movements of the Reinecke bears a very striking resemblance -not coincidental I would think- to the second section (Sehr innig und nicht zu rasch) from the Kreisleriana.

When playing the Reinecke, I was so strongly reminded of it.


Jason
#602367 12/08/07 01:38 PM
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Thanks for all the responses so far, everyone. And I've even learned of some pieces which I have never heard of before, which is always great. Keep 'em coming!

Quote
Originally posted by argerichfan:
The score of the Reinecke is with the flutist I played for, therefore she has the score. But one of the inner movements of the Reinecke bears a very striking resemblance -not coincidental I would think- to the second section (Sehr innig und nicht zu rasch) from the Kreisleriana.

When playing the Reinecke, I was so strongly reminded of it.
Of course, yes, Reinecke's third movement main theme does resemble that of Schumann's second! Why didn't I hear that before? Incidentally, what do you make of those odd sf's in the Schumann theme? Everyone seems to ignore them.
Were the libations good this time around? laugh


Die Krebs gehn zurucke,
Die Stockfisch bleiben dicke,
Die Karpfen viel fressen,
Die Predigt vergessen.

Die Predigt hat g'fallen.
Sie bleiben wie alle.
#602368 12/08/07 03:06 PM
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Quote
Originally posted by Janus Sachs:
Were the libations good this time around?
I don't remember... eek

Seriously, you're the first person I've encountered (at least virtually) who doesn't care for the Franck sonata. Amazing! I've never much cared for it on the cello, and it just sounds putrid on the flute, but the original violin?

Utterly eloquent... and the recitativo 3rd mov't? You'll find me out in the elysian fields...


Jason
#602369 12/08/07 03:30 PM
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Quote
Originally posted by argerichfan:

Seriously, you're the first person I've encountered (at least virtually) who doesn't care for the Franck sonata. Amazing! I've never much cared for it on the cello, and it just sounds putrid on the flute, but the original violin?

Utterly eloquent... and the recitativo 3rd mov't? You'll find me out in the elysian fields...
Hmm, I think I may just have some Franck issues. I admire the first movement of the D minor Symphony, and the Prelude Chorale and Fugue does grab me sometimes, but on the whole something about his style rubs me the wrong way (maybe the fact that he is sometimes foursquare in his phrase construction has something to do with it). The recitative you mentioned and the second movement are perhaps the two things I find most interesting about the violin sonata (but that's not enough for me to say that I like it). I listened to the string quartet once and thought it interesting enough to listen to again -- alas now I can't since I've moved since then, and I don't have access to a decent music library (or ANY music library for that matter, aside from a few volumes from my collection that aren't in storage).
Incidentally, I'm not the only one with Franck issues -- I read an interview with Uchida, who said that she'd like to get together with a quartet to perform the Franck piano quintet, even though, as she said, "The last movement is vile!"


Die Krebs gehn zurucke,
Die Stockfisch bleiben dicke,
Die Karpfen viel fressen,
Die Predigt vergessen.

Die Predigt hat g'fallen.
Sie bleiben wie alle.
#602370 12/08/07 03:32 PM
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I like the Tchaikovsky Trio, Chausson's Concerto for Piano, Violin and String Quartet, Dvorak's Bagatelles (harmonium instead of piano, but close enough) and his Quintet, as well as Franck's. Mendelssohn's first Cello Sonata is nice. In fact, there is a lot more good chamber music than good concertos.


Semipro Tech
#602371 12/08/07 03:40 PM
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Quote
Originally posted by BDB:
I like the Tchaikovsky Trio, Chausson's Concerto for Piano, Violin and String Quartet, Dvorak's Bagatelles (harmonium instead of piano, but close enough) and his Quintet, as well as Franck's. Mendelssohn's first Cello Sonata is nice. In fact, there is a lot more good chamber music than good concertos.
Oooh, the Chausson concerto is quite an original and lovely work -- I haven't listened to it in ages! I view the Tchaikovsky trio as something of a guilty pleasure, even though, as argerichfan may say, it's just another weakly accompanied piano concerto (though somewhat more strongly accompanied than the Chopin trio). And I agree with you about good chamber music vs. good concerti. Chamber music seems to bring about the best in composers.


Die Krebs gehn zurucke,
Die Stockfisch bleiben dicke,
Die Karpfen viel fressen,
Die Predigt vergessen.

Die Predigt hat g'fallen.
Sie bleiben wie alle.
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