Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Piano Forum SOCK PUPPET ALERT: Essex, Yamaha, Charles Walter

You make a good point POTUS, however as you can see even a "banned" participant of these forums can become - someone else. So I think that giving the offending party a good spanking, which was completed (I think) in her capture, and allowing her to continue to post as we all already know her is a far better option than her resurection as someone else.

This really is a "fair and balanced" community of piano lovers, and the forum does a pretty good job of self policing (as you've just witnessed). Please stick around and I am certain you will see for yourself, and enjoy the program.

Mike

PS, Congratulations on your new piano purchase.

I think the fair price range for an Essex 123 is $3000~$3500.

A Yamaha U1 is usually around $6000~$6500.

Better brand is priced higher.

I tend to side with POTUS on this one. Pardon me if I don't get caught up in the Pianomadam lovefest. She apologized only because she got caught. Who knows how often she's pulled this stunt in the past, and who knows how often she'll pull it again in the future. I agree with you, Mike, that we have no way of ensuring that she wouldn't just re-register under a new alias if she were banned... but I think that knowingly allowing her to continue posting is an even worse alternative.

Not having any kind of consequence for this kind of misbehavior sends the wrong message, imo.
Of course, this is just my opinion; ultimately it's Frank's and/or Ken's judgment call to make.

And is 'she' even a 'she'?

Sorry PianoMadam, but once caught, it is now hard for me to believe anything that you have written. You have not stated your name nor where you are located etc, which I believe most every honest dealer does here.

I appreciate your apology, but don't appreciate being 'dooped' by anyone - nor the games. Luckily you were caught. As a consumer, I really, really want to believe what my salesman tells me. You have lost your credibility with this outrageous game you played..

I would think that Steinway would be quite embarassed with this public display.

I may forgive but it is hard to forget.

If Pianomadam, aka 'clavier' would have heeded my advice and gotten herself a Brodman in the first place, she wouldn't have to apologize to anyone.

Just thank Brodmann, or me...

Norbert

What's so courageous about an anonymous apology? If we knew the person's name and store, I would be impressed. Heck, as far as we know, pianomadam could be a Steinway competitor who's trying to make Steinway salesmen appear to be super-sneaky. (Of course that would be pretty impressive, if only for its deviousness).

The fact that Pianomadam posts without disclosing her/his identity or store name and location says more negative than an anonymous apology after getting caught.

Dan

nm

Pianomadam gets caught with her pants down and some folks want to kiss both cheeks. No Thanks ..
No apology from an anonymous avatar will do.
Wonder how many more avatars she uses?
She now shows her location as Southern United States instead of Northeast USA ...
Did she move her store? Full disclosure please.

I'm with POTUS and Monica.

Pianomadam has pushed the envelop many times before. This latest fraud exposes her (or him) and shows her true colors.

Praising her for apologizing after being caught is enabling.

Still waiting.
Don't tell me you are not reading this cause I won't believe you

I agree with the full disclosure of who you are.

I think she said something about the move a while back...could be a load of ****, I don't know. I'm willing to see if she can come clean about her identity and location. And if she doesn't, both of my above posts will disappear.

[edit]Above posts have disappeared anyway.

Expressing a wish that pianomadam not be pursued and heckled here on this forum and that her apology be accepted as genuine and that she given a second chance is not a lovefest.

If you want to express a different opinion, go ahead. But you don't need to ridicule the opposing opinion to do that.

I'm in the Monica, lilylady, Bear, and Steve C. camp. Disclosure after discovery - so what.

Personal opinion: suspension + disclosure of true trade affiliation.

I'm not joining the easy apology side either. Saying this is not the same thing as heckling. She has been shilling outrageously for Steinway and all of those fabulous and incredible Steinway-designed products for as long as she has been here. Anyone with a decent grasp of the search function can verify that. Now she has been caught using a sock to peddle and puff Essex. Geez.

OK she apologized. Fine. Embarrassment is a great motive for that. And getting caught in the act brooks no weaseling. It warrants no group hug. Whatever tiny bit of credibility she might have had should be shredded. The problem, of course, is that a shill can always return to influence people who have no history here, but who are looking to this group for help.

It's a constant problem, I know, and she is surely not the only dealer ever to behave in this fashion. That likely fact warrants no group hug either.

Oh .... and thanks to Beacon Chris! I don't think anyone has ever caught somebody with their proverbial pants down so neatly.

Truth is that unless we get to know who pianomadam (or pianomister) really is nobody is going to hear her (or him) out anyway.
Furthering the same truth; even if he/she does come clean his/her posts will be highly scrutinized, filleted, laid open, and most probably dismissed.
So - why ban? She's all but excommunicated anyway.
And I agree with lillylady that pianomadams behavior is, or should be a disgrace to Steinway. It's they who should have her banned!

Mike


(edited for grammar violations)

So now we have 'enabling', 'camp', and 'group hug' to go with 'lovefest'.

I don't think any groups, camps, or the like have met to form a collective opinion. People are saying what they personally feel. Why label opinions as some sort of collective mentality?

In my post I was responding to pianomadam directly and personally. I've seldom been bothered by what she has to say. I've noticed that she keeps her cool when those coming down on her hard get very personal. I suppose I took that into account when I posted, but I was hardly deliberating as if PW was some perfect world where she had violated a sacred principle never violated by others. Give me a break!

Anyway, it's my opinion. I'm not a moderator, a wannabe moderator, or trying to influence anyone else. While I can certainly respect and understand other INDIVIDUAL opinions. I simply wanted pianomadam to know that I sensed her embarrassment and remorse and wished her a speedy rehabilitation free of any scourging.

I would certainly hope that those who run this place don't need some kind of opinion poll or demonstration of a collective will to know how to enforce their own standards.

What? You don't like "group hug?" It's such a "nice" term.

Nah!!! Get away from me.