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#59748 - 01/12/09 02:15 PM SOCK PUPPET ALERT: Essex, Yamaha, Charles Walter  
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 1
cklavier Offline
Junior Member
cklavier  Offline
Junior Member

Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 1
Philadelphia, PA
Hello everyone.

I'm new here and am very grateful for this forum.
After a couple months of research (Larry Fine's Piano Book, Piano World, talking with friends/family) I have narrowed down to a few brands and wanted to get your input on how to proceed.

I first saw the Yamaha T-118 and was decently impressed by its clarity and touch.

The second piano I saw was an Essex 123, which was about the same price as the Yamaha. It was also decent and, the salesperson told me it is quickly becoming their best-selling piano.

I finally played a Charles Walter and was more impressed by the cabinet than I was the feel and sound, but it was OK, too. It had a decent amount of depth.

Any thoughts on which piano to gravitate to and why? I've budgeted around $5,000 and not too much more. Thanks for your help!

I'd appreciate it if you would not suggest other pianos to try out as these are the 3 brands I would like to focus on.


Cklavier

Yamaha Clavinova CVP-94
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#59749 - 01/12/09 03:47 PM Re: SOCK PUPPET ALERT: Essex, Yamaha, Charles Walter  
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 57
paulmarcus Offline
Full Member
paulmarcus  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 57
USA
I have not played the Charles Walter, but hear they're nice pianos. I have played the Essex 123.. in fact, just today between tuning appts I stopped in to see the Bechstein dealer and right next to the Bechstein 190 sat an Essex 123. Naturally I played both. I was very impressed with the Essex. For a $5,000 piano I thought it played as well as any Yamaha U series.

I am fond of the Steinway products as I studied for 10 years on Steinway. The Essex uprights are 100% Steinway's design and uses Steinway's patents, but is manufactured by Pearl River. You still get Steinway's full warranty though.

I personally like the Essex, but you'd probably be happy with either.


Marcus
#59750 - 01/12/09 06:18 PM Re: SOCK PUPPET ALERT: Essex, Yamaha, Charles Walter  
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 422
Diaphragmatic Offline
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Diaphragmatic  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 422
Quote
Originally posted by cklavier:
Hello everyone.

I'm new here and am very grateful for this forum.
After a couple months of research (Larry Fine's Piano Book, Piano World, talking with friends/family) I have narrowed down to a few brands and wanted to get your input on how to proceed.

I first saw the Yamaha T-118 and was decently impressed by its clarity and touch.

The second piano I saw was an Essex 123, which was about the same price as the Yamaha. It was also decent and, the salesperson told me it is quickly becoming their best-selling piano.

I finally played a Charles Walter and was more impressed by the cabinet than I was the feel and sound, but it was OK, too. It had a decent amount of depth.

Any thoughts on which piano to gravitate to and why? I've budgeted around $5,000 and not too much more. Thanks for your help!

I'd appreciate it if you would not suggest other pianos to try out as these are the 3 brands I would like to focus on.
The Essex 123 has a full, clear tone and even scale, especially when considering its an 48" upright.

It's my favorite vertical in the Essex line.

and BTW, ~5,000 is an excellent price for that piano.

I have had many families choose Essex over the U series Yamaha's and K series Kawai's even though they do not compete in the same price point.

A Steinway designed product is a solid choice.


Musically Yours,
Jonathan Hunt

Sales Professional:
Steinway, Boston, Essex, Kohler & Campbell

The Music Gallery
Clearwater, Fl.
#59751 - 01/12/09 06:39 PM Re: SOCK PUPPET ALERT: Essex, Yamaha, Charles Walter  
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 356
mahermusic Offline
Full Member
mahermusic  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 356
U.S.A.
I believe the Charles Walter is in a different tier than both the Yamaha and Essex in Larry Fine's Piano Book, being in the higher Tier 2.

Also, the Walter will have no particle board in its construction, as you saw when you referenced the cabinet quality, as well as individually weighted keys, and exceptional tuning stability.

Also, unlike the other two models you mentioned, the Walter family handcrafts each piano in their factory in Elkhart, Indiana, and places a 12-year FULL warranty on it. Only a few piano manufacturers give a full warranty with their piano... and Walter is one of them.

Now.... can you get a Walter for $5,000? That may be tough. Are you being offered the chance to purchase a brand new Walter at $5,000? I would say grab it without hesitation.

Disclaimer - I own a Walter... and LOVE it! Good luck!


Charles R. Walter 1520 QA Mahogany #531739 w/ High Polish, Renner and Quiet Pedal
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#59752 - 01/12/09 06:43 PM Re: SOCK PUPPET ALERT: Essex, Yamaha, Charles Walter  
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 7,439
turandot Offline
7000 Post Club Member
turandot  Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 7,439
torrance, CA
Quote
Originally posted by cklavier:
Hello everyone.

I'm new here and am very grateful for this forum.
After a couple months of research (Larry Fine's Piano Book, Piano World, talking with friends/family) I have narrowed down to a few brands and wanted to get your input on how to proceed.

I first saw the Yamaha T-118 and was decently impressed by its clarity and touch.

The second piano I saw was an Essex 123, which was about the same price as the Yamaha. It was also decent and, the salesperson told me it is quickly becoming their best-selling piano.

I finally played a Charles Walter and was more impressed by the cabinet than I was the feel and sound, but it was OK, too. It had a decent amount of depth.

Any thoughts on which piano to gravitate to and why? I've budgeted around $5,000 and not too much more. Thanks for your help!

I'd appreciate it if you would not suggest other pianos to try out as these are the 3 brands I would like to focus on.
I won't suggest other pianos, but I would question your process of paring your list to three. From the way you describe it, it seems that you arrived at these three after reading Fine, reading this forum, and talking to other people.......no mention of auditioning a bunch of pianos with your own fingers and ears.

If that is true, I think you have probably ruled out pianos that you might like better.

One comment on design. In this price range, who designed the thing is not of overriding importance. Think designer perfumes. The designer's name is all over the packaging, but the fragrance inside tells the tale.


Will Johnny Come Marching Home?
The fate of the modern wartime soldier
#59753 - 01/12/09 09:22 PM Re: SOCK PUPPET ALERT: Essex, Yamaha, Charles Walter  
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 57
paulmarcus Offline
Full Member
paulmarcus  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 57
USA
Bad analogy.


Marcus
#59754 - 01/12/09 09:49 PM Re: SOCK PUPPET ALERT: Essex, Yamaha, Charles Walter  
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 7,439
turandot Offline
7000 Post Club Member
turandot  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 7,439
torrance, CA
Quote
Bad analogy.
You're probably right, Marcus.
Stinky actually laugh , but I try to stay away from the car analogies.

Let me phrase it without an analogy. A low-priced piano is not likely to be a technical tour de force. Design is the result of compromises to deliver a product that can compete well at the desired pricepoint with the desired margin. I'm not referring at all to Charles Walter pianos since their intended price is far higher than 5k, and if they are really selling at 5k, it's not by design.

In that connection, let me ask you a question about your statement......

Quote
The Essex uprights are 100% Steinway's design and uses Steinway's patents, but is manufactured by Pearl River.
What application of exclusive Steinway patents to the Essex verticals makes them unique from their humble Pearl River cousins?


Will Johnny Come Marching Home?
The fate of the modern wartime soldier
#59755 - 01/12/09 09:54 PM Re: SOCK PUPPET ALERT: Essex, Yamaha, Charles Walter  
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 19,862
apple* Offline
apple*  Offline


Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 19,862
Kansas
CW


accompanist/organist.. a non-MTNA teacher to a few

love and peace, Õun (apple in Estonian)
#59756 - 01/12/09 09:56 PM Re: SOCK PUPPET ALERT: Essex, Yamaha, Charles Walter  
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 15,246
Norbert Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Norbert  Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 15,246
Surrey, B.C.
If you ever come across this one, try this 49" beaut.

http://www.pianoworld.com/Uploads/files/IMG_2289.jpg

http://www.pianoworld.com/Uploads/files/IMG_2292.jpg

In your particular price range and coming with adustable real leather bench, I have played no better piano,now,20 or 40 years ago.

"Norbert"

http://www.brodmann-pianos.com/upright_piano_123m.html?&L=1%20%5BBOE%3A%20Vir

Available only in high gloss mahagony. shocked

The only reluctance I have to post this here is that now all the other Brodmann dealers are running off like crazy starting to order this particular 49" somewhat hidden gem among all the Brodmann uprights

It's one piano at a price that could help explain the current economic trouble we're in.

Raise its price to at least $ 10,000 - and all will be o.k. again.

Hopefully.....

Norbert wink


www.heritagepianos.com
Greater Vancouver B.C. piano dealers for : Estonia, Brodmann, Ritmuller
604-951-8642 www.eliteheritagepianos.ca Edmonton, Alta dealers for Estonia,
Brodmann 780-405-8908
#59757 - 01/12/09 11:19 PM Re: SOCK PUPPET ALERT: Essex, Yamaha, Charles Walter  
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 416
Pianomadam Offline
Full Member
Pianomadam  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 416
Southern United States
You are considering good pianos, cklavier. What prices are you getting on each piano? Which seems best built to you? What do you feel most comfortable with?


PianoMadam

Family of Steinway-Designed Pianos (Steinway & Sons, Boston, Essex) Dealer
#59758 - 01/12/09 11:29 PM Re: SOCK PUPPET ALERT: Essex, Yamaha, Charles Walter  
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 511
Beacon Chris Offline
500 Post Club Member
Beacon Chris  Offline
500 Post Club Member

Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 511
Idaho
Hey Pianomadam,

did you forget to go over to the other IP address and post as cklavier? Oops!!! I wonder if the moderator is catching this!


Musician, Singer, Teacher, Humorist, Dad...

“I have an inferiority complex, but it’s not a very good one.”
― Steven Wright
#59759 - 01/12/09 11:32 PM Re: SOCK PUPPET ALERT: Essex, Yamaha, Charles Walter  
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 511
Beacon Chris Offline
500 Post Club Member
Beacon Chris  Offline
500 Post Club Member

Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 511
Idaho
Ah!

You just edited the post! Rascal.

BC


Musician, Singer, Teacher, Humorist, Dad...

“I have an inferiority complex, but it’s not a very good one.”
― Steven Wright
#59760 - 01/13/09 12:01 AM Re: SOCK PUPPET ALERT: Essex, Yamaha, Charles Walter  
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 695
DanLaura Larson Offline
500 Post Club Member
DanLaura Larson  Offline
500 Post Club Member

Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 695
Pocatello, Idaho
Oh my gosh, that is too funny Beacon. laugh thumb


Dan and Laura Larson
Fazioli and Ibach grands
Larson Piano Studio
http://www.stoneformsart.com/
#59761 - 01/13/09 12:06 AM Re: SOCK PUPPET ALERT: Essex, Yamaha, Charles Walter  
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 511
Beacon Chris Offline
500 Post Club Member
Beacon Chris  Offline
500 Post Club Member

Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 511
Idaho
DanLaura,

Did you see that too? I tried to use the quote button and save the whole thing but it was already edited. I'm not good with the quotes.

I did manage the copy & paste function on my own computer and this is what she wrote:


"Thank you everybody! The Walter is the one piano I have not tried yet and, if they are not available for less than $5,000 I guess I'll scratch that! I'm leaning a little more to the Essex given the Steinway pedigree. I know there is a lot of debate around here about the Steinway-designed thing, but I think it's overblown a little! Can anybody tell me a little more about their impressions of the t-116?

--------------------
PianoMadam

Family of Steinway-Designed Pianos (Steinway & Sons, Boston, Essex) Dealer"


BC laugh laugh laugh


Musician, Singer, Teacher, Humorist, Dad...

“I have an inferiority complex, but it’s not a very good one.”
― Steven Wright
#59762 - 01/13/09 12:08 AM Re: SOCK PUPPET ALERT: Essex, Yamaha, Charles Walter  
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 469
Catlady Offline
Full Member
Catlady  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 469
Arlington,VA
Hey Chris!
Isn't it past your bedtime???


Cathy Harl - former piano dealer and tech.
Currently making and designing jewelry.
#59763 - 01/13/09 12:13 AM Re: SOCK PUPPET ALERT: Essex, Yamaha, Charles Walter  
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 511
Beacon Chris Offline
500 Post Club Member
Beacon Chris  Offline
500 Post Club Member

Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 511
Idaho
I'm just catching up with some of those "liars & Cheats" !!!!!

BC wink


Musician, Singer, Teacher, Humorist, Dad...

“I have an inferiority complex, but it’s not a very good one.”
― Steven Wright
#59764 - 01/13/09 12:14 AM Re: SOCK PUPPET ALERT: Essex, Yamaha, Charles Walter  
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 7,439
turandot Offline
7000 Post Club Member
turandot  Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 7,439
torrance, CA
Chris,

I don't understand (and I desperately want to laugh ).

Did a post appear addressed to cklavier that was from cklavier?


Will Johnny Come Marching Home?
The fate of the modern wartime soldier
#59765 - 01/13/09 12:21 AM Re: SOCK PUPPET ALERT: Essex, Yamaha, Charles Walter  
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 511
Beacon Chris Offline
500 Post Club Member
Beacon Chris  Offline
500 Post Club Member

Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 511
Idaho
T,

Pianomadam's most recent post contained this text when I came to the the thread:

Thank you everybody! The Walter is the one piano I have not tried yet and, if they are not available for less than $5,000 I guess I'll scratch that! I'm leaning a little more to the Essex given the Steinway pedigree. I know there is a lot of debate around here about the Steinway-designed thing, but I think it's overblown a little! Can anybody tell me a little more about their impressions of the t-116?

--------------------
PianoMadam

Family of Steinway-Designed Pianos (Steinway & Sons, Boston, Essex) Dealer

I copied the thread because I realized that she obviously posts as this thread starter and her intentions were to post the above post as cklavier - however, she was signed in as Pianomadam so she saw her error and quickly edited before I could use and figure out the quote function (I still don't know how). I had, however, saved her original post!

Understand?

BC


Musician, Singer, Teacher, Humorist, Dad...

“I have an inferiority complex, but it’s not a very good one.”
― Steven Wright
#59766 - 01/13/09 12:24 AM Re: SOCK PUPPET ALERT: Essex, Yamaha, Charles Walter  
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 7,439
turandot Offline
7000 Post Club Member
turandot  Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 7,439
torrance, CA
Oh man! I'm reminded of those Southwest Airline commericals...."wanna get away?" Too funny!!!!!


Will Johnny Come Marching Home?
The fate of the modern wartime soldier
#59767 - 01/13/09 12:25 AM Re: SOCK PUPPET ALERT: Essex, Yamaha, Charles Walter  
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 511
Beacon Chris Offline
500 Post Club Member
Beacon Chris  Offline
500 Post Club Member

Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 511
Idaho
I can't believe I was on here just as it was happening. Frankly, I've been suspect of all these Essex threads lately!

BC


Musician, Singer, Teacher, Humorist, Dad...

“I have an inferiority complex, but it’s not a very good one.”
― Steven Wright
#59768 - 01/13/09 12:26 AM Re: SOCK PUPPET ALERT: Essex, Yamaha, Charles Walter  
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 469
Catlady Offline
Full Member
Catlady  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 469
Arlington,VA
OMG!!! laugh
I was thinking the exact same thing!


Cathy Harl - former piano dealer and tech.
Currently making and designing jewelry.
#59769 - 01/13/09 12:30 AM Re: SOCK PUPPET ALERT: Essex, Yamaha, Charles Walter  
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 511
Beacon Chris Offline
500 Post Club Member
Beacon Chris  Offline
500 Post Club Member

Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 511
Idaho
I think we scared her away for the night.

COME BACK TO US, PIANOMADAM!!

BC wink


Musician, Singer, Teacher, Humorist, Dad...

“I have an inferiority complex, but it’s not a very good one.”
― Steven Wright
#59770 - 01/13/09 12:31 AM Re: SOCK PUPPET ALERT: Essex, Yamaha, Charles Walter  
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 307
DarkGreenChocolate Offline
Full Member
DarkGreenChocolate  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 307
Michigan
IMHO, two silly things have been said so far.

1) Why ask for advice and then say you're not interested in a full range of suggestions? More to the point, why on earth would you limit a search to three brands? Particularly if you live in Philly, you have an embarrassment of riches, potentially, to choose from, and the biggest mistake you can make, it seems to me, would be over-selectivity/prejudice.

2) The Essex has about as much in common with the Steinway as a Pontiac Vibe (Toyota Matrix) does with a Chevy Tahoe--maybe less. Did Steinway "design" it? I don't know what that means. What I do know is that it plays suspiciously like a Pearl River, and nothing at all like a Steinway. Does that make it a bad choice? Not necessarily. But keep it real, please. Maybe the warranty, "trade-up" policy, dealer network, etc. make the Essex worthwhile for some people, but don't kid yourself--it is NOT, in any meaningful way, a Steinway.

I've never seen or played a Charles Walter, but I've found, empirically, that hand-built pianos tend to be superior to mass-produced ones, and I feel, non-empirically, that it's awfully nice to support a small, independent, and/or American company whenever possible. That's not in any way a statement against Asian businesses, but simply a recognition that American piano companies are a seriously endangered species.

#59771 - 01/13/09 01:15 AM Re: SOCK PUPPET ALERT: Essex, Yamaha, Charles Walter  
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 3,715
Rod Verhnjak Offline
3000 Post Club Member
Rod Verhnjak  Offline
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Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 3,715
Vancouver B.C. Canada
Wow [Linked Image]


Verhnjak Pianos
Specializing in the Restoration, Refinishing & Maintenance
of Fine Heirloom Pianos

www.pianoman.ca
Verhnjak Pianos Facebook

#59772 - 01/13/09 01:26 AM Re: SOCK PUPPET ALERT: Essex, Yamaha, Charles Walter  
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 7,439
turandot Offline
7000 Post Club Member
turandot  Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 7,439
torrance, CA
Chocolate,

Don't get hung up on the props...... be they Walter, Essex or Yamaha. This was simply great theater, to be savored like a last row seat at the Wiener Volksoper. laugh

Just think of the effort, emotion, and desperation that goes into this kind of dialogue with one's inner being.


Will Johnny Come Marching Home?
The fate of the modern wartime soldier
#59773 - 01/13/09 01:37 AM Re: SOCK PUPPET ALERT: Essex, Yamaha, Charles Walter  
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 422
Diaphragmatic Offline
Full Member
Diaphragmatic  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 422
not a good time to shpeeel


Musically Yours,
Jonathan Hunt

Sales Professional:
Steinway, Boston, Essex, Kohler & Campbell

The Music Gallery
Clearwater, Fl.
#59774 - 01/13/09 01:44 AM Re: SOCK PUPPET ALERT: Essex, Yamaha, Charles Walter  
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 422
Diaphragmatic Offline
Full Member
Diaphragmatic  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 422
not a good time to shpeeel..


Musically Yours,
Jonathan Hunt

Sales Professional:
Steinway, Boston, Essex, Kohler & Campbell

The Music Gallery
Clearwater, Fl.
#59775 - 01/13/09 02:07 AM Re: SOCK PUPPET ALERT: Essex, Yamaha, Charles Walter  
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 7,439
turandot Offline
7000 Post Club Member
turandot  Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 7,439
torrance, CA
Good call Jonathan. I read the "shpeeel" and pushed the post button to respond. When the reply box came up, poof....the spiel was gone. laugh

Props to you for posting in your own name with complete affiliation. Keep your cool and you can offset any collateral damage and embarrassment caused by others who claim to represent the same company that you do. Oh....and about those talking points... : eek


Will Johnny Come Marching Home?
The fate of the modern wartime soldier
#59776 - 01/13/09 02:10 AM Re: SOCK PUPPET ALERT: Essex, Yamaha, Charles Walter  
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,642
Furtwangler Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Furtwangler  Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,642
Danville, California
This is really hilarious.

So not only is she an idiot, but she is dishonest to boot. Gee, who woulda thought?

Another nail in the coffin.

Good catch, Chris.

#59777 - 01/13/09 02:22 AM Re: SOCK PUPPET ALERT: Essex, Yamaha, Charles Walter  
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,348
Bear 1 Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Bear 1  Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,348
Hillsboro Beach South Florida
Chris,

You da man! smile

Bear


Barry J "Bear" Arnaut ♫
46 Years in the Piano Industry
Retired Kawai/Shigeru Kawai Regional Manager
(My posts and threads are my opinions only)
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